I've inevitably seen a lot of Holocaust Revisionism occurring. I used to just write it off as fringe lunacy, but after some recent events in my life, I'm much more interested than I was before. Some have claimed that revisionism has gained traction as to "rehabilitate" National Socialism by removing the source for all the stigma from perhaps the single most controversial series of events.But please, tell me the truth. I will accept any concrete evidence that some sort of Jewish conspiracy was responsible for the falsifying or grossly exaggerating the Holocaust. Do not bullshit me with out-of-context infographics or newsclippings. Likewise, don't speculate or spread unsubstantiated rumors. Let all your sources be full of proper citations.I would most prefer you have sources that are non-partisan, but sometimes, that simply is too tall an order. Still, there are surely some impartial critics of the Holocaust.I've seen these posted every now and then, and was hoping you would respond to them.http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2009/03/photographic-documentation-of-nazi.htmlhttp://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2017/05/rebutting-twitter-denial-most-popular.htmlhttp://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2012/10/index-of-published-evidence-on.htmlhttps://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2018/04/debunking-youtube-denial.htmlhttp://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2017/06/debunking-david-coles-auschwitz-video.htmlhttp://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2013/09/viewers-guide-to-denierbuds-auschwitz.htmlhttps://imgur.com/user/SirAaronRichards/submittedhttps://imgur.com/gallery/Wf5pw6Khttps://imgur.com/a/wo09chttps://imgur.com/a/725A7https://imgur.com/gallery/tq9IFhttps://imgur.com/gallery/2qAglhttps://imgur.com/gallery/iNYHW
>>6767542>being this much of a pilpul cuckoldYou’re too far gone to save, I’m afraid.
>>6767564>>6767575Try to be serious. Raul Hilberg and Norman Finkelstein are two respected academics whose respective bibliographies are worth their weight in gold.
>>6767575What is pilpul?
>>6767542>But please, tell me the truth. I will accept any concrete evidence that some sort of Jewish conspiracy was responsible for the falsifying or grossly exaggerating the Holocaust.These are mutually exclusive.
>>6767542Oh you sweet summer childYou expect serious replies to a thread like this?/pol/yps avoid well sourced arguments like the plague.
>>6767672And in an instant you've proven you're utterly braindead with no idea what you're talking about.
>>6767689Notice how the good goy reacts with anger when you tell it has been deceived by its cut-cocked masters. True NPC behavior. That’s why showing you evidence is pointless. The well has already been poisoned.
>>6767542>blogspot and imgur links are legitimate sources
>>6767701Where's the anger? Its a statement of fact. If that's what you think pilpul is then you're a moron.
>>6767713>blogspot and imgur (and wordpress) links are legitimate sources when they deny the holocaust though
>>6767713>>6767701>>6767672>>6767575>>6767564take your meds
>>6767701>you tell it has been deceived by its cut-cocked masters>Proceeds to lie worse than a kike about "muh typhus" and "muh pools" in concentration camps, not to mention the "Hitler luved russians and was willing to sacrifice kraut lives to liberate ruskies"
>>6767714>>6767689>>6767719Why is the shabbos goy mad that people don't beleve his propaganda?>>6767717>no rebuttal from the jew worshipping traitor blogspot and imgur links aren't legitimate sources
>>6767701>>6767689>>6767672>>6767658>>6767656>>6767651>>6767649Ad homs and bad faith arguments everywhere.As I see it, Holocaust Revisionists are mostly antisemites with ulterior motives and sloppy scholarship, but on the other hand, too many proponents of the Holocaust exploit the history for personal gain and to manipulate politics. In my view, these mainstream scholars are so much worse than deniers, but that doesn't mean deniers' bad scholarship becomes credible. Thus, it is obvious no fruitful dialogue between deniers and the mainstream Holocaust scholars can occur because both have greater political goals. People like Lipstadt advocate shutting down all denial as do most Euro governments, but the respected Raul Hilberg believe denial serves a purpose: it instructs us reconsider what we believe to be obvious and thus polish our scholarship for future generations.
>>6767719I'd rather not drink fluoride and become a cuck. You go ahead.
>>6767723Notice how there's no attempt to prove or back up his claim in any way, just childish screeches of "you mad? you mad? you mad?" ?
>>6767542the vast majority of holocaust deniers don't even read books on the subject like those of Mattogno, and are therefore incapable of providing a coherent argument that is not based off refuted canards from the 90s and newspaper clippings about some old Jewish guy who nobody ever heard of claiming he was gassed 6 times then raped with a plank
>>6767542As an aside, I once heard that the Allies sent forged photos supposedly of Axis atrocities to sow discord among the German public. Is any of this true?
>>6767542Doesn't matter to me if it was or if it wasn't a hoax. If it was (or if the numbers were lower) than it's a redeeming factor for NS. If it's not, then there are far less Jews than today then there could have been. Win win either way.
>>6767799Note again how much more time is spent typing out a long screed than on producing evidence for his claims?
>>6767542>Some have claimed that revisionism has gained traction as to "rehabilitate" National Socialism by removing the source for all the stigma from perhaps the single most controversial series of eventsWhich is retarded, since pretty much everybody with nazi sympathies thinks Jews deserve death anyway.
>>6767809The ZOG deserves the gas. Ordinary people can live (but they have to give half of """Israel""" to Palestinians)
>>6767819Again, another post of nothingness that could have been spent proving his claims. Anyone else starting to think he doesn't know what he's talking about?
>>6767819>falsities, edited evidenceProve it
>>6767828>>6767830>the shabbos goy is samefagging now What caused you to write up a propaganda blogspot and spread lies for the Jews?
>>6767841Still no proof or any evidence to back up your claim...
>>6767885Blogspot and imgur aren't legitimate sources though, that a 100% correct statement
>>6767904>not only am I a dishonest Jew, I can’t read.Both of us have supplied evidence of our claims you retard
>>6767919Really? Where have you proved that pilpul means ritual lying to outsiders?
He's never going to stop being a stormnigger.You must cut him off NOW and not give him another single (You) until he pretends to take this seriously.To reiterate:>he will NEVER show the proofs>please stop giving him attention, thanks
>>6767939Why are you shabbos goys so mad? Is it all explained on your lie filled blogspot?
>>6767941Really compelling argument. You're winning many converts to your cause with your amazing debating skills here.
>>6767939it's the same stormnigger in every thread calling people anti-white shills and refusing to make a proper argument
>>6767953I know you mean it in sarcasm, but it’s the truth. Every day, more and more people join us against (((you))) “people”
>>6767963He seems to have switched to calling everyone shabbos goys now. Isnt it interesting that stormnigger arguments have been so utterly btfo that they flat out refuse to recognise sources and effectively stick their fingers in their ears while screeching "IT WASN'T REAL IN MY MIND!!!" while unironically calling everyone else brainwashed?
>>6767542Why would i respond to those links, they're sourced evidence of the holocaust and thorough rebuttals of denial
>>6767966Then they're fucking morons too if they believe people who can't prove the meaning of a single word they constantly screech.
>>6767986>gets accused of doing a thing>instantly does itThey're not sending their best.
>>6767993>shill still won't admit if he believes that blogspot and imgur are legitimate sources
Why are all pictures of bodies from post liberation?
>>6768029If it's all a Jewish conspiracy, why would they let that info come to light and strip her of her awards?
>>6768054Because they don't police their own crazies, that's what gets them in trouble.
>>6768059But how would anyone know they were crazy if it wasn't published?
>6768029And when it was found out the record was corrected.I don't see why one anecdote would confirm an entire conspiracy theory.>the truth is, there are population records of before and after WW2 in which a very, very significant decrease in the number of Jewish people can be seen. >These people did not survive the war because of nazi policies. >This is condemning enough for national socialism for mistreating a part of their own society this way.>being obsessed about how the Jews were killed and that it wasn't intentional as the stormfags like us to believe is not true in the first place, there are plenty of survivors that have testified about this. >Furthermore: it would have been very, very unlikely if all survivors, so not only Jews but also polacks, political opponents etc., would have kept their mouth shut all those years after the war about what happened as according to the stormfags.You see, the problem of /pol/ is that it is quite funny to pretend to be a retard. I enjoy posting there myself as well. The problem is that actual retardation believe they have found a new home at /pol/
>>6768159But I thought Jews controlled everything? They must be smart if they control everything?
>>6768425Christians weren't allowed to own banks, Jews filled that role and now they have some of the most powerful people in the world. You don't have to be smart to have power or be born into wealth.
>>6768476Christians were able to own banks long after Jews were still crammed into ghettos.
>>6768476Which is of course why people like the Medici and the Fuggers were weird mass hallucinations, right?
>>6768490woops, meant for >>6768483
>>6768476Christians were able to own banks for centuries whole Jews are still crammed into ghettos. Who do you think took over the Jews money lending businesses when they were kicked out of places?
>>6767726Look, I think Hillberg is optimistic about the worth of deniers here. I haven't really ever seen anything to suggest that they've moved the needle on Holocaust research in any significant way: as Rousso says, in France mainly they forced people to rebut them rather than uncover significantly more about the operations of the Holocaust. Honestly, some of the debates within Holocaust studies have enough rancor already, and deniers just bring nothing to the table.A lot of people within the academy have a variety of opinions on the efficacy of laws against denial (Lipstadt is actually against laws against denial, and her chapter on how deniers misunderstand the First Amendment is probably the best one in the book).Overall, as >>6767750 says, deniers know little to nothing about academic research on the topic, and mainly tilt at windmills of certain elements of public memory of the Holocaust. But in criticising this, as you know, they are joined by almost every Holocaust historian, who generally have a hell of a lot of things to say about how it is commemorated. Deniers hardly give us anything that Finkelstein doesn't, for example, and, unlike deniers, Finkelstein isn't overcome by apoplexy if you show him pictures of the Einzatgruppen.You seem actually interested in this, so I'd recommend you read Vidal-Naquet's "Assassins of Memory". I think the full set of essays is available online, but start here:http://www.anti-rev.org/textes/VidalNaquet92a/I'm procrastinating, so let me know if you want any other resources or have any other questions. But generally (and what is ultimately the failure of this board's moderation) a productive conversation with deniers is not possible, because there position begins and ends with a claim: that the Holocaust did not happen. Everything else becomes a means towards this end.
>>6768490No, it's supposed to convince you that your statment that, and I quote>Christians weren't allowed to own banksIs simply wrong, and idiotic besides. There were LOTS of Christian owned banks and other lending groups. Which in turn knocks your "theory" on its fat ass.
>>6767542Holocaust denial is for big meanies.
>>6768490Two massively powerful and influential examples out of many many others. Look who was targeted in medieval uprisings, particularly the Peasants Revolt in England. After the Jews were expelled, Christian Dutch and Italian merchants and businessmen took over the money lending trade and people wanted them t fuck off as well.
>>6768514>>6768526>>6768500>christians weren't allowed to own banks>post example of Christians owning banks 1000 years after Christianity was adoptedDunno bros, seems like a weak argument.
>>6768046because the nazis burnt all the evidence and dug up the bodies so no traces would be found :^)also isnt it just marvelous how the nazis supposedly deported all the jews, even the frensh ones, to the east front so they could be killed in the extermination camps? it sure had to be that way because all the camps not liberated by the soviets turned out to be just labour campsit sure isn't just a conspiracy
>>6768539So you agree that there are examples of Christians being allowed to own banks? Particullary at a time when Christians who owned banks controlled a big chunk of Europe while Jews who owned banks were crammed into ghettos with no power or influence.
>>6768576It's not a very good argument
>>6768573>also isnt it just marvelous how the nazis supposedly deported all the jews, even the frensh ones, to the east front so they could be killed in the extermination campsWho says this?
>>6768586How is it not? Christians owned banks and were immensely powerful. Jews owned banks and were almost entirely powerless.
>>6768595Because it doesn't take into account the nearly 2000 years of jewish presence in europe at the time or things like the Roman-Jewish wars
>>6768573>also isnt it just marvelous how the nazis supposedly deported all the jews, even the frensh onesfrench ones mostly survivedand that is because Nazi strategy was to move as many Jews as possible into the General Government ghettos and camps and gradually kill those populations off and make room for more and more waves of Jews to be deported there from all over Europe>it sure had to be that way because all the camps not liberated by the soviets turned out to be just labour campsjust a reminder that Mauthausen was liberated by the western allies and had a gas chamber
>>6768608>Roman-Jewish warsYou mean when they went from a literally who desert tribe to a powerless, exiled diaspora? How does that indicate they were actually really powerful because muh banks.
>>6768590well there were jews from the western occupied countries that actually we're deported but if the nazis would have wanted to kill them it would raise some questions of which the most interesting in my opinion is that they would need to send them to the extermination camps which supposedly were all located in the east so why even bother erecting so many camps in the west?
>>6768573>also isnt it just marvelous how the nazis supposedly deported all the jews, even the frensh ones, to the east front so they could be killed in the extermination camps? it sure had to be that way because all the camps not liberated by the soviets turned out to be just labour campsIt makes perfect sense that they wouldn’t want the extermination camps to be in the “civilized” part of Europe.
>>6768616>what are fumigation chambersevery camp had gas chambers. lice were a problem in war, you know, with the typhus and shit....
>>6768622>why even bother erecting so many camps in the west?because they needed forced labor in the west
>>6768626As well as in the areas that had the highest Jewish concentrations in Europe.
>>6768539>Christians owning banks 1000 years after Christianity was adoptedit's almost as if modern banking (i.e. banks that are actually influential and hold power over more than just their own street, and moreover were accurately documented) didn't come into play until the Renaissancemaybe it has to do with the fact that even financial workers in those intermittent 1000 years were rarely literate? maybe the documentation we have left is biased? No, no, it's a Jewish conspiracy of course
>>6768622Because the idea was to use the majority of them as slave workers until they dropped dead from exhaustion and mistreatment? With only those unable to work being killed on arrival? This is basic stuff.
>>6768626>completely ignoring the stupid amount of organisation needed to transfer supposed millions of people trough an occupied war zonesometimes it's like children's guesswork, huh?
>>6768619I don't think "a powerless desert tribe" could kill 20,000 soldiers
>>6768652>20,000 soldiers>over 70 yearsOh look, it's fucking nothing. Please tell us what a great and mighty kingdom Judea was in the first century.
>>6768629>they needed forced labour in the west>the west>not the east with the way more pressing enemy but in the west where only the anglos were a threat to the germans until the nazis were retreating in the east do you think about what you write?
>>6768647It's both that difficult when you are the ones doing the occupying and have complete control over most of a continent railway systems.
>>6768639you mean basic stuff for which there is no evidence at all but eye witness testimony, the weakest form of evidence in a court of law? you sure showed me
>>6768665>there's a magical forcefield that stops goods produced in the West being transported to the East>having your factories and work camps close to the fighting is a good idea
>>6768429You're such a virgin you didn't even get to kiss a girl in highschool
>>6768663They ambushed and killed 6,000 soldiers in the first conflict
>>6768668>control over railway systemisn't it just so inconvenient that the brits were bombing supplielines since 1939?
>>6768675Wierd how eye witness testimony is absolutely fine for litterally every other period of history, including events contempory to the Holocaust, except the Holocaust...
>>6768681Again, a conflict that lasted several years. It's litterally nothing.
>>6768668I mean, the most famous trial about the Holocaust was for the person who organised the logistics of this transfer, who notably did not deny its existence in whole or in part>>6768676I think the incessant projection of an ahistorical rationality onto genocide ignores that genocide is not rational, and while it was often organised around "rational" lines (modern railway systems, etc) a significant chunk of it was the more conventional shooting people in the back of the head. It's perfectly coherent that the people who were pursuing a policy of elimination against the Jews did not go about it according to the most "efficient" way in hindsight, because killing all of the Jews has nothing to do with efficiency when you get down to it. Not only this, but the policy of outright extermination was developed piecemeal and regionally as much as it was centrally planned.
>>6768647Do you not understand that there were multiple camps across Europe, not just in the East?More often than not, Jews and other undesirables were first sent to the nearest camp, and daisy-chained along the different camps into the East as more poured into the original camp, filling it to the brimRarely did people from the Benelux or France even make it to the extermination camps without dying from fatigue or typhoid fever.The whole fucking point of the extermination camps is that they are the end of the line. By the point they arrived in those camps, they had all been 'used up' in the camps along the wayMan they weren't kidding above when they said deniers didn't do shit for research
>>6768688>the RAF was omnipresent and litterally every single railway line in Europe was destroyed instantly overnight with no attempts to repair them made at any point
>>6768707Very true. But that can't fit into a two line advice animal into graphic so good luck getting stormfags to understand.
I love it when Jerry apologists cry about muh raf when they literally vaporised Lodz. You all deserved it you bastards.
>>6768689if there would be any other form of evidence for the holocaust it maybe wouldn't be under constant attack since its commercialisation
>>6768728There's plenty of other forms of evidence. Your kind just instantly screeches about it being fake.
>>6768700Yeah no. 4 years of fighting that culminated in the deaths of four Roman legions and the sieging of Jerusalem. All because Jews didn't like taxes, it wasn't "no big deal".
>>6768711so what is it now? where they worked to death in the west or were the send to the east to simply die because either way it's not coherent with the other policies in charge in nazi germany
>>6768745you still have to show something. just claiming evidence exists doesn't make you right, ya know?
>>6768728I mean, not at all. IHR, the annual denier conference, barely cracked 200 attendees annually, and most of those were the same small circle of authors jerking each other off to whatever ex-Nazi they had featured that year. Denier literature has never risen above crank-tier in popularity.>>6768750There isn't one answer. You're anachronistically projecting a coherency onto what was a convoluted process, the classic "cumulative radicalisation".
>>6768627It wasn't a fumigation chamberit was used to kill around 25,000 people
>>6768665Who do you think mans the factories making armaments, who do you think builds atlantic wall fortifications, who do you think repairs bombing damage? are you fucking stupid?
>>6768762>there isn't one answer>the nazis just did some shit they thought was fancy at the time>don't question too much goyimeither you are dishonest with yourself or you are just ignoranteither way I invite you to show me some evidence that even one thing claimed about the holocaust is true
>>6768770Actually it was about 30,000 people a DAY just in Auschwitz
>>6768508>Lipstadt is actually against laws against denialI wouldn't trust her. She's mendacious and too politically motivated to take as an impartial source. Finkelstein and Hilberg are much more reliable since they're much more even handed.
>>6768747>JerusalemLitterally where? All you've proven is that Rome spent a long time and a bunch of men stomping on them militarily. Show how the Jews were a powerful and influential people in the ancient world.
>>6768747Yes, it was literally nothing, and Romans ended up slaughtering kikes so bad that they never arisen as a national entity until fucking 1948.
>>6768758This has been done to death. Look through the archives at any of the other thousand holocaust threads full of photographs and surviving documents.
>>6767542I think jews exaggerated the number of deaths and some of the reasons for those deaths. I don't deny that it happened, but the body count is a little high, and minimized the effects of the Typhoid outbreak and allied raids on German Supply chains.
>>6768805>rebel against the roman empire>kill civilians>get your shit pushed inThat's how the cookie crumbles
>>6768780projecting a bit much? would you really think it's a good idea to let the disenfranchised and oppressed people build your tools for their oppression? don't you think they will try to work against you and attempt sabotage?
>>6768784You're ignorant about how historical evidence is treated if you think "one thing" can be proven in isolation. What suffices as proof for a policy of mass murder? The mass graves, readily found? The blueprints for the camps, showing the gas chambers? The diaries of Germans in the camps describing the horrors of "special treatment", the euphemism for liquidation? The individual testimony of people who perpetrated the "Holocaust by bullets", tried by German courts? The testimony of survivors themselves? The Wannsee Protocol? All of these exist. >>6768797No, I think we can trust her on this. She's been vocally against laws against Holocaust denial both in her scholarship and public intellectual work to that effect. She argues for ignoring deniers wholesale, because acknowledging them grants them the legitimacy they crave. I believe you are the first person, EVER, to call Finkelstein "even-handed".
>>6768784Why are you under the impression that a government in the middle of losing a three front war is going to be logical and consistent in its policy towards getting rid of what it saw as the enemy of civilisation while simultaneously maintaining their industrial capacity?
>>6768750>where they worked to death in the west or were the send to the east to simply diecan you read?I literally pointed out that they were haphazardly relocated along the chain of camps towards the east, with many of them dying along the way. The extermination camps were only for those who survived (plus the ones who were basically just unfortunate enough to be sent there) since the logistics were barely even functional and didn't take into account to actually keep them alive until they reached the gas chambers (I mean why the fuck would they?)The Nazis didn't even give much of a fuck about the labour they could extract out of the Jews along the way because the whole point was to exterminate them from the get-go.>>6768784Honestly you should just off yourself since this entire fucking thread is filled with proof and reasoning (remarkably, nothing but conjecture and conspiracy from the other side) that you seemingly read over. Seriously read a fucking book sometime. Jesus fucking christ.
>>6768810Funny how those raids on the supply chain had no effect on camps housing Allied military prisoners or the parts of larger camp complexes that housed them, even as other inmates starved to death a few yards away...
>>6768810What I find odd is that our nation knew with absolute moral certainty that it was a moral imperative to intervene in the holocaust, yet denied that the Native American genocide ever took place. Today our highest volume trade partner is a nation that persecutes religious minorities by executing them and harvesting their organs, yet liberal, educated americans are less interested in foreign intervention or sanctions than they ever have been in the history of the United States.
>>6768810A little high for what? Deaths in a concentration camp due to typhus is counted towards the "numbers" of the Holocaust, because if you herd people into ghettos or camps like cattle, starve them, and deal poorly with the disease outbreaks, you are responsible for their deaths. There's plenty of evidence that camps had pantries full of food that they just didn't give to the prisoners in them.
>>6768809again just telling to look it up won't convince anyone of your positionI actually try to argue in good faith but it's like you guys are too self-absorbed to think about what an undocumented, falsified and thousandfold lied about event in history would look like to someone who tries to think this thing through logically
>>6768825>workers can just do what they like with no supervision, inspection or quality control
>>6768852How many Germans died from starvation and typhus?
>>6768847The Holocaust that they had no idea was happening outside of vague resistance fighters rumours until Allied troops practically walked into the fences of the camps?
>>6768843Its not 'funny', its the nature of regional logistics, most of their resources were being pushed up towards the front while those who were left behind starved. As for your claim, I'd like to see a primary source that states the Germans would be stupid enough to host evidence of their crimes right next to allied prisoners for them to witness, especially when they knew the red cross would be inspecting their camps and when it became clear they were losing the war.
>>6768861>undocumented, falsified and thousandfold lied about event in historyRemarkably, you refrain from posting proof as to what exactly about the holocaust is "undocumented, falsified and thousandfold lied about"There were numerous sources cited in this thread alone. It isn't the job of other users on this message board to help you with your inherent laziness. Read a fucking book.
>>6768873wrong post, i think.
>>6768861Except there are plenty of documents. Unless you are litterally the newest of faggots and this is your first /his/ holocaust thread you'd know that.
>>6768847The nation didn't know "for moral certainty" that it was a "moral imperative" to intervene in the Holocaust, because almost all of the Allied press reports did not focus on the Jews as specific victims in order to avoid the anti-semitic attitudes of the American public. They focused on broad atrocities that the Germans were committing against everyone, which gave them ample material.Public knowledge of "the Holocaust" really started after the Eichmann trial. >>6768864In the camps? Well, German communists, German Jews, German pacifists, German homosexuals all died from those conditions. Few, if any, of those staffing the camps did. I'm not really aware of any significant number that did, at least, but I'm aware of several cases where there were, at liberation, full pantries of food for camp functionaries and full food production facility, and starving prisoners inside the camp. >>6768879No, you're still going to have to account for the differences in treatment between Allied POWs and Soviet POWs there. Why were Allied Jewish POWs kept as bargaining chips and Soviet Jewish POWs immediately liquidated?
>>6768900>but I'm aware of several cases where there were, at liberation, full pantries of food for camp functionaries and full food production facility, and starving prisoners inside the camp. Post one
>>6768852i only have your word that is true.on the other hand, i know many german soldiers died of Typhoid and who didn't have adequete rations for even themselves had been documented by the german war effort in numerous primary sources.I think its clear that holocaust revisionists exist on both sides of the debate, that both have spared no expense at re-interpreting the truth and constantly attacking each other reputations while doing everything in their power to bury primary sources that contradict their narrative.What pro-israeli scholers fail to realize is that the holocaust took place nearly a hundred years ago, people no longer find it relevant outside of a historical context and promoting the victim narrative has the exact opposite effect that is intended, creating hostility among the youth groups and contempt among your contemporaries.
>>6768879Yet the Allied military prisoners who were left behind didn't starve or die of disease anywhere near the levels suffered by civilian concentration camp prisoners.Look up "British POW Auschwitz" or "POW camp E517". British military prisoners were housed and used as workers in the IG Faben plant in Auschwitz.
>>6768892How was it a moral imperative to intervene in a thing they didn't know was happening?
>>6768825that's literally what the Nazis did you buffoonNazi Germany was reliant on slave labor and as a result of this it wasn't uncommon for weapons and munitions to be sabotaged
>>6768900>No, you're still going to have to account for the differences in treatment between Allied POWs and Soviet POWs there. Why were Allied Jewish POWs kept as bargaining chips and Soviet Jewish POWs immediately liquidated?Soviet prisoners experienced several atrocities while housed in POW camps, they were far from treated fairly, many were tortured and many more died. They were kept as bargaining chips because it was practical to do so, they were fighting a war on two fronts and needed all the leverage they could get.
>>6768942Let me tell you, you would NOT have liked to be a captured SOE agent during the war. Christ, they would pull their teeth out to gain information.
>>6768832>acknowledging them grants them the legitimacy they crave.That's not true, but okay. Unpersoning them only motivates them to be even louder. Attacking deniers physically and denying them the public platform to speak grants them martyrdom. Revisionism begins and ends with cynical Jews who exploit the events for personal gain. The actual facts of the Holocaust are entirely peripheral to me personally. Sure, having the facts is important, but not for the long term. I'm more concerned that the events or the Holocaust are used as a cudgel against Nationalism and demoskepticism.
>>6768930>i know many german soldiers died of Typhoid and who didn't have adequete rations for even themselves had been documented by the german war effort in numerous primary sources.So post those primary sources.
>>6768912At the Belsen camp, hundreds of tons of food were found locked up, just a few miles away from where tens of thousands starved to death.http://www.bergenbelsen.co.uk/pages/TrialTranscript/Trial_Day_004.htmlAccording to Brigadier Hugh Llewelyn Glyn Hughes more than 40 tons of medical supplies were found nearby, a cookhouse capable of delivering meals daily and food storage within 2 miles of the camp. http://www.bergenbelsen.co.uk/pages/TrialTranscript/Trial_Day_003.htmlDr. Fritz Klein, one of the camp doctors and a defendant himself repeatedly mentions there being a huge amount of medical and food supplies near the camp. http://www.bergenbelsen.co.uk/pages/trialtranscript/Trial_Day_021.html
>>6768912>>6768930Belsen Trial. Let me see if I can find the original photographs from the trial. I'm specifically speaking about the disparity in treatment in the camps, where we have attendants sitting on stockpiles of food that would have fed prisoners for several weeks. >I think its clear that holocaust revisionists exist on both sides of the debate, that both have spared no expense at re-interpreting the truth and constantly attacking each other reputations while doing everything in their power to bury primary sources that contradict their narrative.not really. Pretty much all academic historians ignore Holocaust denial, revisionism is mainly over interpretation of what evidence means, not throwing out the evidence wholesale. You could argue that "the other side" of intentionalism is not on the side of the pro-israeli scholars, but that doesn't include denial, because deniers are not worth the time. >>6768951Again: why were Soviet POWs worked to death, Soviet Jewish POWs liquidated, and Allied Jewish POWs spared? What accounts for this specific disparity? Given the far more pressing concern of Soviet backlash, surely the Nazis would have wanted to negotiate with the Soviets more than the Western Allies. What with the propaganda against Judeo-Bolshevism and everything.
>>6768975>Jewish banking interests manipulated america into going to war with Germany despite numerous protests by American working class people. Except it was Germany who declared war on America, not the other way round>American working class peoplewho? like members of the German-American Bund and pacifists?
>>6768954The problem with this is that "unpersoning" deniers is actually pretty damn effective. 4chan is an outlier; hardcore denial like the kind we get on the boards here pretty much doesn't exist among the general population. Most are simply ignorant of the Holocaust, really. Deniers have, and continue to have, a public platform. Again, Lipstadt's chapter on this issue here is actually really quite good: deniers demand platforms to which they are not entitled (ie, college newspapers), then cry fowl when they are not granted this platform (which is not something that they are entitled to). >Nationalism and demoskepticism.Nazis weren't as monolithically anti-modern as you think, and if you think "demoskepticism" is something coherent associated with Nazism only then pick up a book. If you see yourself being cudgeled by deniers lacking a mainstream outlet then I don't think you understand the paucity of denial fully
>>6768955I don't have them, sorry.Maybe do your own research.What I find interesting is that even the suggestion that the holocaust may not have had quite the historical impact or that America has history of revisionist thinking seems to matter at all to you. I already stated that the holocaust happened, yet you persist in pursuing the victim mentality and promoting the idea that it is somehow still relevant, even three quarters of a century later.
>>6768954>>6768995Again, hardcore denial is a literal handful of people worldwide. If I had to guess, I'd say there would be more flat earthers worldwide, and there's DEFINITELY more people that believe in UFOs. There's no evidence that it springs from "cynical Jews", because you could argue that the way the Holocaust was carried out was an exercise in denial. Bardeche is the first denier, and he was a French neo-fascist. Denial grew in sophistication after the Holocaust's association with Israel, but there's no evidence that it ever actually gained any significant popularity outside of far-right circles.
>>6769002>I don't have them, sorry.>Maybe do your own researchHow comvenient. This after bitching about not being provided with surviving holocaust documentation for the thousandth time...
>>6769002You need to address this, my good friend, considering it's exactly the proof you were asking after: >>6768958
>>6769002More native americans died in the western expansion than all of the casualties in world war 2 combined, including those who died in the holocaust. Yet somehow it is seen as less relevant than the german holocaust, even though the persecution of native americans continues to this day, while jew's have been granted asylum in america and been granted their own nation in the state of Israel.To me, it just seems like your beating a dead horse then asking why your not eliciting sympathy for a decades old tragedy that has no bearing on current events, outside the rather contentious issue of the state of Israel.
>>6769025I think you're suggesting that these genocides are zero-sum when they are not; both can have ongoing relevance to the modern world, and neither's existence crowds out the other.Have you read Andrew Dirk Moses on reconciling these two positions? Perhaps you may like to.
>>6768958>>6768964Day One of the trial pretty much sums it all up.For the prisoners>The food position was such that the ordinary rations in a concentration camp, quite apart from any peculiarities which may arise, was a cup of weak ersatz coffee in the morning; that was breakfast. Midday meal consisted of some turnip soup with sometimes a little bread. The evening meal did not exist.Meanwhile>You will hear Major Berney, who arrived on 15th April with Colonel Taylor. The next morning he went off to a Wehrmacht camp which was about a mile up the road and saw the quartermaster. You will hear that that is where the food for the concentration camp came from. Kramer will tell you that the reason he could not get food was because it came from Celle and Hannover but it in fact came from the Wehrmacht Camp. In that camp there was any amount of food which could have been distributed to these people. There were at least 600 tons of potatoes, 122 tons of tinned meat, 30 tons of sugar, tons of powdered milk and flour. Kramer, of course, says that it was impossible to get bread but he tried his best. You will hear that there was a fully stocked bakery in the Wehrmacht Camp with a terrific grain supply and capable of turning out 60000 loaves a day which it did immediately afterwards and continued to do so with the same staff and from the same stock of grain.>You will hear that there were vast quantities of medical supplies which I think have not been exhausted yet. You will hear that in the administration block in No. 1 Camp there were about 100 wooden boxes of tinned milk and meat which was in the SS quarters and marked "Hungarian." They were Red Cross parcels which had been sent to the Hungarian internees by the Hungarian Red Cross and been stolen by the SS guards.
>>6769016How can I take the charge that Holocaust Deniers manufacture evidence charitably without extending to you the said same claim?
>>6769067>ITS FAKE!!!!Called it here >>6768745
>>6769067The holocaust is a bludgeon with which Pro-Isreali partisans use to club Americans over the head. Never is it discussed why we should extend to the descendants of holocaust survivors the same sympathy of their ancestors, or explained why Americans should spend billions of their tax dollars supporting Israeli interests despite a history of abusing said trust and committing atrocities.
>>6768958All that food, yet no water?
>>6769098The transcript also covers water supply.>With regard to the water supply you will hear that although the camp had been without water for anything from three to five days and all that there was were these foul concrete tanks with bodies in them. You will hear that as soon as somebody started to try and do something within two days with the equipment which was already in that camp and with no addition to it there was an adequate working water supply laid on to every kitchen, and that within five days with the assistance only of the local fire brigade there was a complete and proper water system running throughout the camp. So much for the story that this was a breakdown of organisation due to war conditions. You will hear that there was nothing lacking to provide full water and sanitation in that camp had anybody wanted to do it at all.
>>6769105how telling that you ignore all my salient points and act as though you are making a rebuttal when I have already told you several times that we are in agreement.
>>6768745your kind? what the hell is that supposed to mean?
>>67690671) I don't think I need to make about that claim about Holocaust deniers; I don't think it's great to describe deniers as "manufacturing" evidence, because they don't really have an idea of what actually happened during World War II. They generally only "disprove" existing evidence rather than introduce their own, original research. Most of the literature is based on disavowal of witness testimony, taking Nazi euphemism at face value, and dismissal of evidence. They do this because were the Holocaust a myth, surely it would be widespread knowledge in the locations in which it was supposed to take place, that no such slaughter happened; yet this would rely upon an inverse conspiracy, where thousands of Poles kept secret after the war about this terrible falsehood.2) There is a substantial difference between treating witness testimony with a critical eye and suggesting that the entirety of evidence introduced before the Belsen trial, which includes several witness testimonies as well as photographs. You would have to show that every single piece of evidence in that trial was manufactured, which stretches common sense credulity. I think Vidal-Naquet really gets to the bottom of this:>Formerly, God's existence was proven by the notion that existence was contained in the very concept of God. Such was the famous "ontological proof." It may be said that for the "revisionists," the gas chambers did not exist because nonexistence was one of their attributes. Such is the nonontological proof. For example, the word Vergasung does indeed mean gassing when it appears in the negative in a letter from the historian Martin Broszat to Die Zeit (August 19, 1960): "Keine Vergasung in Dachau" ("no gassing in Dachau"); but Vergasungskeller means "carburation chamber" in a document of January 1943 cited by Georges Wellers (Faurisson, in Vérité, pp. 104, 109).Deniers do not have a standard of evidence to which they can be held.
>>6769113What points? You asked for a source that stores were full while inmates starved, anon posted the transcript that covers food supply. Then you asked about water and I posted the section that covers water.
>>6769105The depot wasn't just in charge of supplying that camp, you know. It was in charge of supplying practically the entirety of Lower Saxony.
>>6769105Are you really surprised that people question your narrative when you make such a contentious issue of it? Arguing with holocaust deniers just makes you look foolish, you are arguing a matter of fact with someone too ignorant to understand. It makes it look as though you have something to hide and feeds into the victim complex of Pro-Israeli partisans.I'm simply telling you: you are only harming your own interests.
>>6769121You know exactly what it means.
>>6769145What's contentious? He asked about water supply, I provided the part of the transcript that covers water supply.
>>6769139No, i was promoting the idea that holocaust politics have absolutely nothing to do with history of the holocaust, and that by issuing a general challenge to deniers you are actively promoting hostility towards yourself so that you pretend that you are the victim, when in fact you are inciting controversy.
>>6769146that i'm some sort of inbred white trash? now who's being ignorant?
>>6769113See >>6769040. There's nothing that links the Holocaust necessarily to Israel, despite Zionist arguments otherwise. I think it's fine to make expressly ethical claims about the Holocaust absent any discussion of Israel. Your points are hardly unique, even within Israel itself, since its creation, and there needs to be no association with denial for them to be made. Again, it seems you have not addressed >>6768995 or >>6769013, and have dropped discussion of denial in order to be on the safer rhetorical ground of anti-Zionism.>>6769145Most people don't argue with Holocaust denial and there's almost no academic literature on it compared to the Holocaust, especially (Lipstadt is basically the only one). As has been said previously, pretty much every historian ignores deniers, but for a while they were the object of a battle in historiography. But nobody actually addresses their claims, because they're rubbish. You seem to be straining to make this connection necessarily to the actions of (themselves quite a small number of) historians and the actions of deniers, which is both a) very weak and b) not at all necessary to take an anti-Zionist position. >>6769171What "general challenge to deniers"? The controversy takes place entirely absent deniers. Nobody pays attention to deniers, and rightly.
>>6769144Yet it was fully stocked with litterally tons of supplies. How could this be if Allied bombing destroyed all the supply lines and forced starvation on the camp inmates? They were a mile away from the camp. They could have carried supplies by hand that distance.
>>6769159don't play coy. you are deliberately side railing the debate. At least have the courage to stand by your convictions.
>>6769173>some sort of inbred white trash? I was thinking something more like stormnigger or /pol/yp but if that's what you want to go with, carry on.
>>6769180There was also no german transport systems running in the camp of 3000 footsoldiers.
>>6769171What challenge? You asked a question. People answered it.
>>6769181>giving answers to asked questions is side railing the debate
>>6769178so if the question of the holocaust is not up for debate, then why debate it? You are the one who opened up the forum and yielded the floor to them, yet you claim you don't have any ulterior motives of malign intentions.I think you need to analyze your motives if you can't understand what is going on here.
>>6769189So what was stopping them from filling up backpacks and just having people walk to the camp and back? How many of those foot soldiers were living on a diet of one cup of fake coffee and diet of weak turnip soup once a day?
>>6769210>COLONEL BACKHOUSE: I am afraid we have not got a plan of the camp. There was not an accurate plan made before the camp was burned down and we have not got one.Seems convenient
>>6769237And who was responsible for making plans of the camp and who burned it down? How is that related to food supplies in a different location a mile away? How does that relate to the food situation there?
>>6769201Nobody has "yielded the floor" to deniers. They do not have a place on the forum. They have no associations with any academic history departments, and I think only one associated figure, Barnes, has a history PhD. Debate over the Holocaust comes over interpretation of established evidence, which is to say, how and why the Holocaust happened (and what comes to be called the Holocaust). The major one for most of this time has been the debate between the extent to which the Holocaust was a product of centrally planned intent of Hitler (intentionalist) whereas one that favours a more de-centralised, ad-hoc, cumulative radicalisation (functionalist). Nobody in this debate questions the existence of the gas chambers themselves, just how we got to them.Deniers do not agree on the standards of evidence for this debate. So they cannot be reasoned with, or engaged in conversation with.>>6769208>Which is why the mainstream keeps suppressing Holocaust Revisionists and deniers. Proponents of the mainstream narrative care more for the grip on political power and legally sanctioned revenge for those killed. There isn't a "mainstream narrative". Academic historians have been at each others' throats over this since the 1950s. The narrative you seem to be suggesting was one sub-strand of one side of an ongoing debate, and one which holds very little water in this day and age. You are confusing public memory with academic history. >Because it's stigmatized and violently suppressed. Disseminating Revisionist views may be legal in the United States, but few are willing to endure the consequences.Aside from a few isolated incidents, deniers are not "violently suppressed", and I'm not aware of any violence against denial organisations since the 90s. It's stigmatized because of its close ties with Neo-Nazi groups who fund denial. Cry me a river, on that one.
>>6769251As far as I'm concerned, in a camp with no vehicles feeding 41,000 people once a day was a miracle in of itself.
>>6769282>feeding people thin soup once per day is a miracle>even though you have literal tons of other supplies within walking distanceIf by miracle you mean moronic then sure.
RIGHTYPOL OFF HIS MEDS
>>6769208>So you've read The Holocaust Industry and still deny that cynical and politically motivated Jews exploit the tragedy for personal gain?No, you misread my point. I am saying that there is not evidence that a) denial is motivated by "cynical Jews"; it begun with the way the Holocaust was carried out, and was floated by Bardeche early on (Rassinier was published by fascists until La Vielle Taupe picked him up).b) "cynical Jews" are monocausally responsible for a certain public memory of the Holocaust (when it has as much to do with "cynical neoconservatives")c) The motivations of "cynical Jews" are a result of their (homogenous) Jewishness and not, as Finkelstein makes very clear, a combination of interests (most notably their class position). d) By implication, any other championing of history is not "politically motivated" (they all are).>Never said that, but like it or not, Godwin's Law is the default in public discourse. Advocating any Nationalist position will immediately get you compared to Nazis. Even something as simple as immigration reform will draw comparisons to Hitler from the opposition. Yes. Perhaps you should consider why that well is so poisoned. >Doesn't fucking matter. Honestly, 12 million Jews could've died. What matters more is that I can't have a nice neighborhood free from queers and niggers thanks to the Holocaust.This seems like your own fault, really. If you can't find a white flight suburb that seems to be on you rather than a supposed sinister Jewish-led multiculturalism that has anything to do with Holocaust memory. >Entitlement. Now there's a world loaded with many assumptions. That all stems from political power. How are queers in drag more entitled to tell stories to children? How are queers more entitled to openly flaunt their sexuality in public with police protection?There's not going to be a coherent vision of free speech which you can tie to this, so I'll save you the time: this is a dead end.
>>6769293Do you know how much "supplies" 41,000 people with typhus and diarrhea "need" a day?
>>6769309Well, the bakery at the camp started up and begun feeding them immediately with the same staff, so at least for longer than they did, because they did nothing
>>6769309Please tell me.
>>6769311You do realize the geman commanders asked for help with the camp, correct? They surrendered?
>>6767542I am mostly conflicted that the Holocaust has a largely inflated death count. Turning so many bodies into ashes with simple ovens and then disappearing somewhere. Then where archeologists who want to study the sites where they guess the ashes are located are stopped or discontinued by Israelis and holy men because it's a "sacred ground".Of course, open discourse or questioning is impossible when it's a crime to do so publicly in civilized countries.Seems awfully convenient if you ask me.
>>6769315They committed treason to save these people and in doing so admitted they didn't have the means to help them anymore. Not only that but they gave up a supply depot that was supplying thousands if not tens of thousands of square miles of germany
>>6769299>This seems like your own fault, really. If you can't find a white flight suburb that seems to be on you rather than a supposed sinister Jewish-led multiculturalism that has anything to do with Holocaust memory.I do live in an upperclass virtually all-white suburb...that also happens to pozzed up the shitter with progressivism and leftism when the town used to be rather conservative. My point being is that events like the Holocaust (and slavery) are cited as reasons towns can't legally stay white and socially conservative. It is also why White Americans cannot form together as a single political block voting with expressly stated group interests.>Perhaps you should consider why that well is so poisoned. >There's not going to be a coherent vision of free speech which you can tie to this, so I'll save you the time: this is a dead end.Beg your pardon? That is, please elaborate.
>>6769325>saved them>by surrendering only when Allied troops were litterally outside the gates>only then is the bakery that was already there used, producing enough bread to feed the camp using supplies that were already there>before which they had let thousands of people starve to deathInteresting definition of save.
>>6769252>It's stigmatized because of its close ties with Neo-Nazi groups who fund denial. Cry me a river, on that one.Like who? Exactly how well funded are these groups? As far as I know, most don't have much in the way of money, and certainly not the war chest all major institutions of higher education have.You talking about the Institute for Historical Review? They certainly don't have the SPLC's war chest.
>>6769332They were the ones working to get the camp up and running after "liberation" and make the bread. Only this time it was for prisoners and not 10,000 square miles of germany
>>6769320I think you're more ignorant than anything about the Holocaust, to be honest. For one, bodies were thrown into mass graves, burned in huge piles, cremated, or simply left where they fell. You're buying into a meme rather than doing the reading yourself. Nor did the ashes disappear, mind; there's testimony from liberating troops of walking through fields of ash, if I recall correctly. If you can find me the archaeologist who want to study the sites, then I'd be interested in seeing them. Most studies are not done voluntarily because disturbing mass graves is generally viewed as verboten among all religious traditions."open discourse or questioning" isn't impossible, outright denial of facts is (and even then, not until the 80s). Would you like me to show you two historians engaged in questioning each other about the Holocaust?
>>6769332>Were disinfectants available? - I do not think in any large quantities.
>>6769340So why weren't they making bread before?
>>6769353They don't answer that even in the investigation, do they?
>>6769353The camp was without working water for a week, that's why they surrendered.
>>6769299>If you can't find a white flight suburb that seems to be on you rather than a supposed sinister Jewish-led multiculturalism that has anything to do with Holocaust memory.It couldn't possibly be because, oh, that Jews agitate constantly for multiculturalism.
>>6769326>My point being is that events like the Holocaust (and slavery) are cited as reasons towns can't legally stay white and socially conservative. It is also why White Americans cannot form together as a single political block voting with expressly stated group interests.If by this you mean "people decided that apartheid was a bad thing" then I'm sorry, pal, you've learned the wrong thing from history there. Subjugation of your fellow man is a bad thing. It seems strange that you would say "White Americans cannot form together as a single political block" in our current year.If you can't make the connection between people's distaste from "Nationalist" positions and the link to Nazis as the most extreme expression of Nationalism, exposing a violence lurking within it, I don't know what to say. >>6769335>Like who? Exactly how well funded are these groups? As far as I know, most don't have much in the way of money, and certainly not the war chest all major institutions of higher education have.Most of Irving's funding comes from private individuals (and businessmen) and IHR was bankrolled by Carto, who was very good at raising money (some may say exploiting the old). It folded after Carto split with them.Irving certainly has no shortage of access to archives, which is where the majority of original research here is done, as he himself will claim (both in terms of access and the location of good research. Money doesn't create better research, though it helps it. Do you see how your suggestion there relies upon a conspiracy (of withdrawal of funding from higher-education groups)? Deniers aren't locked out of these places, half the time they don't bother to even consult them, because they're not historians.IHR has close ties with several Neo-Nazi groups and often hosted unrepentant ex-Nazis. The author of the Auschwitz Lie, for example, is an ex SS man. Irving loves to appear at events like that, as we see in his trial.
>>6769365They managed to turn the water back on at Belsen within 2 days using just equiqment found in the camp. Probably would have been a lot quicker or not needed at all if there werent corpses left in the cisterns. Not to mention that it takes longer than a week for people to starve to death so why weren't they making breas
>>6769386*making bread before the water ran out?
>>6769394They were making bread, for the entire german army in lower saxony.
>>6769370Your chain of reasoning here seems to require>1) White flight suburbs are hard to findThis isn't true of any major American city that I can think of off the top of my head.>2) This is because of Jewish-led multiculturalismThis doesn't seem to be a convincingly monocausal explanation for any success of multiculturalism above and beyond normal patterns of immigration post-war. Unless you want to start with the tin foil and say that the Jews subverted enough to cause the wars. Like I can even grant you that Jews have a disproportionate role in "promoting multiculturalism" and it can still not be the reason there is multiculturalism, because there are more important factors (i.e. mass immigration, success of Civil Rights era)>3) This has something to do with the HolocaustNow we're really getting into the woods. Do Jews promote multiculturalism because of the Holocaust, and is it their revenge for the Holocaust by undermining Western Society, or something? What is the relationship of the Holocaust to multiculturalism? Do people feel bad for the Jews because of the Holocaust, and so allow themselves to be subverted, or something?All of this is fucking moot regardless, because even the racist making the claim agrees that white flight suburbs exist. He's just mad it isn't white enough for him.
>>6769415Ok. And yet they were unable to feed people in a camp a mile away?
>>6769443A german army supply depot does not usually concern itself with prisoners, no.
>>6769449So first it was there was no food because the Allies bombed the supplies, now it's there was food but the Germans didn't give it to the prisoners because the Germany army doesn't usually concern itself with them?
Why even have "death camps"?>lol hans, why dont we waste resources men and time to ship kikes to a camp the other side of the country to inhumanely kill them in a gas chamber with a wooden door, for some reason. Oh yeah we are cartoon villians Why not just kill them on the spot?
>>6769455Why feed subversive kike prisioners when you have actual fighting men to feed?
>>6769385Guilt-by-association and innuendo. Being a Revisionist or denier and a Nazi or Nazi sympathizer aren't mutually inclusive. If you're going to take such a position, you're going to have to speak alongside partisans with their own agendas. So Irving appears at events that featured Nazi sympathizers and even ex-Nazi military. Big deal. Plenty of supposedly respectable politicians associate with even worse people. >muh whataboutism>Subjugation of your fellow man is a bad thingSo is involuntary association with people who clearly don't fit in with the character of a given community. All integration has brought us are cults of personality, lawsuit industries and the complete erosion of White Americans to freely associate or advance personal interests based on race. >Do you see how your suggestion there relies upon a conspiracy (of withdrawal of funding from higher-education groups)?I didn't say that. That's an inference you drew. I never once claimed that Revisionists and deniers are denied access to information. >>6769416>1) White flight suburbs are hard to find>This isn't true of any major American city that I can think of off the top of my head.For now.>2) This is because of Jewish-led multiculturalism>it can still not be the reason there is multiculturalism, because there are more important factors (i.e. mass immigration, success of Civil Rights era)Plenty of influential Jews were behind the Civil Rights movement. The NAACP was founded by Jews, and many played leading roles behind the scenes. Hello Stanley Levison.>3) This has something to do with the HolocaustThe reasons are as numerous as the people involved in such movements. Bear in mind you said this earlier>If you can't make the connection between people's distaste from "Nationalist" positions and the link to Nazis as the most extreme expression of NationalismYou made the connection yourself.
>>6769465So you're saying Germany committed war crimes?
>>6769459They did, initially. They couldn't get the men to keep doing it, because mass murder on that scale fucked them up so much. See Browning's Ordinary Men
>>6769455Considering there was no transport in the camp, and I have yet to get to the part if there was any transport at the depot it's certainly a possibility that the depot was recently no longer being used.
>>6769459They tried that. Turns out gunning down subbing women begging you to let her children go, then shooting the screaming childen as well before tossing them both into a mass grave, all day, every day, started to depress the men a tad.
>>6769455Do you not find it odd the british forces didn't take the guns away from any of the guards and the guards resumed regular duty?
>>6768980>Except it was Germany who declared war on America, not the other way roundwho would have thought the jew in charge of germany would declare war on the USA as part of a giant blood sacrifice>>6769051>>You will hear Major Berney, who arrived on 15th April with Colonel Taylor. The next morning he went off to a Wehrmacht camp which was about a mile up the road and saw the quartermaster. You will hear that that is where the food for the concentration camp came from. Kramer will tell you that the reason he could not get food was because it came from Celle and Hannover but it in fact came from the Wehrmacht Camp. In that camp there was any amount of food which could have been distributed to these people. There were at least 600 tons of potatoes, 122 tons of tinned meat, 30 tons of sugar, tons of powdered milk and flour. Kramer, of course, says that it was impossible to get bread but he tried his best. You will hear that there was a fully stocked bakery in the Wehrmacht Camp with a terrific grain supply and capable of turning out 60000 loaves a day which it did immediately afterwards and continued to do so with the same staff and from the same stock of grain.this would not even hold up as well as a hadith
>>6769475Because the only possible way to transport loaves of bread and tinned meat one mile is with trucks isn't it. There is no possible way they could be carried there any other way.>no longer being usedBut they left sufficient grain and flour behind to start work at full speed immediately?
>>6769483Where does it say that?
>>6769485>ITS FAKE!!!!!!!!!!Called it hours ago. Pathetic.
>>6769472>Guilt-by-association and innuendo. Being a Revisionist or denier and a Nazi or Nazi sympathizer aren't mutually inclusive. If you're going to take such a position, you're going to have to speak alongside partisans with their own agendas. This isn't guilt by association this is you, as an organisation, deciding to host unrepentant ex-Nazis to speak at your conferences on the topic of how the Holocaust didn't happen. This is your own conference, and you're inviting the Nazis in. And I'm yet to really come across any significant denier figure that isn't bankrolled by Nazis, hangs out with Nazis, hosts Nazis, or is sympathetic to Nazis. And I've looked, believe me. This is not to say all ex-Nazis are deniers, in fact the opposite, but nearly all deniers have close working relationships with Nazis. The only way to get around this is if you seemingly surrender to atomisation entirely and even people who claim to be a fascist (like Irving) aren't actually fascists, because they have said they're apolitical at another point in time. Deniers are not disinterested observers, it is a specific transnational phenomena that attempts to unite disparate far right groups.(Aside, of course, from La Vielle Taupe, and if you want to talk about intricacies of the French political scene in the 70s, then let's have at it.)>So Irving appears at events that featured Nazi sympathizers and even ex-Nazi military. Big deal. Plenty of supposedly respectable politicians associate with even worse people. No, the IHR INVITES the unrepentant ex-Nazis. And no, especially in the Western world, most government figures have disavowed the figures in question, which is precisely why they appear at these sorts of conferences, which is the fringe. Their 1987 guest was Otto Ernst Remer, who was repeatedly banned from political participation and fled several countries because of how hard he couldn't stop being a Nazi.
>>6769488Day 2>>6769486There were piles of potatoes obviously dumped by a truck outside of the cookhouse and that's where they were getting their food from.
>>6769509Can you be more specific? Having a quick skim through day 2 the only mention I could see was the SS being allowed to leave before 1pm with those left behind to oversee the handover specifically described as not being armed?
>>6769472>So is involuntary association with people who clearly don't fit in with the character of a given community. All integration has brought us are cults of personality, lawsuit industries and the complete erosion of White Americans to freely associate or advance personal interests based on race. What? This is absurd and not worth dignifying with argument. You being uncomfortable that you are in the presence of black people is not as bad as slavery. I'm sorry you feel threatened by that, but if you think black people can't be as morally upstanding as other citizens, then that's on you, pal. Homogenous white community in the USA is a white fantasia, there's always been in every major population centre "miscegenation", by necessity.>Plenty of influential Jews were behind the Civil Rights movement. The NAACP was founded by Jews, and many played leading roles behind the scenes. Hello Stanley Levison.It's bizarre you're attributing the founding of the NAACP to Jews and not, you know, black people. It was bi-racial but off the top of my head there was one Jewish person involved (as opposed to the black people involved in the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People). This is, again, overstating Jewish influence, which works hand in hand with an inability to credit black achievement. >If you can't make the connection between people's distaste from "Nationalist" positions and the link to Nazis as the most extreme expression of Nationalism>You made the connection yourself.Yes, i.e., it is the Nazi's fault that they gave Nationalism a bad name, not the Jews, who were persecuted by the Nazis. If you are mad that increased attention to the Holocaust gives Nationalism a bad name, then pluck out the beam in your own eye before attending to the mote in another.
>>6767542>>6767719I'm neither an antisemite nor a denier, but it's obvious to anyone who knows history that the holocaust didn't happen although jews would have deserved it.
>>6769541>Was it the case that the intermittent shooting which was heard was done by the Hungarian soldiers? - Not on the first night, obviously; there were none there. I do not think there were any in the camp. After that it may have been Hungarians in the tower. The SS were also put under close arrest and any shooting that went on after that may have been done by Hungarians.>I have to put it to you that the intermittent shooting which was heard was in fact done by the Hungarian guards? - I have also already said that the shooting I heard and saw was done by the SS Whether the Hungarians were in the towers on the first night I do not know, because I did not go to see. We gave Kramer definite instructions about the attitude of the Hungarians the first night we were there, in the same way we gave them to him about the SS>Until Colonel Taylor was in charge of the camp was it not natural for Kramer to take no action with regard to the firing without his superior officers’ orders? - Not at all. They had violated the terms of the agreement in allowing the SS men to have riflesetc etc etc
>>6769580So it flat out says the SS broke their agreement to be unarmed and to not destroy any documents?
>>6769594And they weren't immediately killed and were allowed to walk the grounds with weapons. Interesting
>>6769551Dude, even the Wiki article acknowledges deep connections between Jews and the NAACP:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAACPI'm less of a denier than you.>You being uncomfortable that you are in the presence of black peopleI graduated from a College that was 40% non-white. No discomfort in the least, but again, keep up the snark while failing to address problems like the cult of diversity that influences virtually every institution in the public and private sectors, the lawsuits that intimidate private companies into hiring unqualified workers solely because of their race and so many other culture-destroying laws passed since the Civil Rights era. >if you think black people can't be as morally upstanding as other citizens, then that's on you, pal. Time has proven that blacks do not care about the fundamental values of the United States beyond their immediate gain. They want welfare and high taxes (ie: gibs), and polling has consistently proven this. Thus, non-white populations and nations do not and will not embrace "libertarianism." Ethnic diversity does not get you a libertarian social order. Instead, it gets you South Africa, Brazil and the increasing racial divide we have right now.Can "brown people" embody America's Constitutional values and be productive members of society? Some of them may break the mold, but cats will go vegan sooner than every black activist give deference to Thomas Sowell.>it is the Nazi's fault that they gave Nationalism a bad nameIt isn't. It's the people who make a living telling others how Nazis are evil that gave Nazis a bad name.
>>6769599It doesn't say what happened to them, only that there was shooting and that the SS had kept hold of rifles after agreeing not to. Certainly not "allowed to walk the grounds with weapons" or "the guards assumed regular duty".
>>6769620The hungarians were in the towers and the SS were patrolling outside, at least during the day.
>>6769605I'm not denying there is links. It's bizarre, however, that you would say that "Jews founded the NAACP". You're granting a monolithic presence to Jewishness and ignoring the contribution of black people in their own destiny, by saying the Jews were more important than them in founding an organisation for their benefit. Not to mention the much storied conflicts between black groups and Jews beginning from the 60s, often over the issue of racism and the Holocaust!>I graduated from a College that was 40% non-white. No discomfort in the least, but again, keep up the snark while failing to address problems like the cult of diversity that influences virtually every institution in the public and private sectors, the lawsuits that intimidate private companies into hiring unqualified workers solely because of their race and so many other culture-destroying laws passed since the Civil Rights era. I don't really have to waste time on /pol/ bullshit talking points. I am a Holocaust scholar, telling myself procrastination is useful if I'm engaging with my own topic. The "cult of diversity": God, where would one even begin with that?>Time has proven that blacks do not care about the fundamental values of the United States beyond their immediate gain. I'd encourage you to read Frederick Douglass' speech "What, to the Slave, is the Fourth of July", where he castigates abolitionists for not upholding the "fundamental values of the United States"
>>6768490>50% of the 1%Jews aren't even .5% of the world population
>>6769638Yet jews are 50% of the richest people on the planet
>>6769620>The lack of water was caused by the failure of the electricity, was it not? - I think so.I wonder why they lost power
>>6769605Douglass:>You declare, before the world, and are understood by the world to declare, that you “hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal; and are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; and that, among these are, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness;” and yet, you hold securely, in a bondage which, according to your own Thomas Jefferson, “is worse than ages of that which your fathers rose in rebellion to oppose,” a seventh part of the inhabitants of your countryIn fact, it's been a prominent catchcry of black groups that America is not holding itself to its promise. I think Foner has a chapter in it in the Story of American Freedom. I'm afraid we've exhausted the limits of our productive conversation, as you do not seem to actually know what you are talking about, as evidenced by your constant retreat from my substantive claims about denial's association with far right groups and references to specific figures, periods of time, and thought within the movement itself. It's not terribly surprising that you identify as a libertarian, given its long association with denial (Reason in 1975 hosted a special issue) which would suggest its inability to see, again, the paucity of denial as a school of thought. >It isn't. It's the people who make a living telling others how Nazis are evil that gave Nazis a bad name.I don't know what to tell you; if you think the onus is on people who accurately describe the crimes of the Nazis (i.e., state-sanctioned liquidation of Jews and Roma, working Soviet POWs to death, Generalplan Ost, T4 program), rather than the Nazis themselves, then I worry you have no sense of moral responsibility. Indiscriminate killing of women and children remains the worse crime, even than people who may cynically take advantage of it. Because the latter are not indiscriminately killing women and children, and if they are, by virtue of their cynicism, it has nothing to do with the Holocaust.
>>6769628It vaguely mentions Hungarians in the tower but where are you getting SS patrols outside?
>>6769670The SS had to have been patrolling in order to stop the prisoners from stealing potatoes
>>6769652>the richest people on the planetTop 10? Top 1000?
>>6769658>You will hear that as soon as somebody started to try and do something within two days with the equipment which was already in that camp and with no addition to it there was an adequate working water supply laid on to every kitchen, and that within five days with the assistance only of the local fire brigade there was a complete and proper water system running throughout the camp. So much for the story that this was a breakdown of organisation due to war conditions.
>>6769672What does the transcript actually say?
>>6769673How many people are in the top 1%? Because they're half of them.
>>6769675It's almost like employing the use of german fire trucks helps the water situation
>>6769680Fuck dude I'm not going that far back, I'm on day 3
>>6769681The top 1% of richest people in the world are 75 million people, and there are less than 15 million Jews in the world
>>6769635>>6769661>where he castigates abolitionists for not upholding the "fundamental values of the United States"It would seem those abolitionists who didn't uphold the fundamental values of the United States succeeded, because the entire Civil Rights era owes its success to Communist, Socialist and Anarchist agitators. Tell me, where does Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Property (or Happiness, as Jefferson called it) exist within those ideological frameworks? The state of the African-American mindset comes exactly from the ideological legacies of W.E.B. DuBois and Martin Luther King, Jr. rather than Booker T. Washington or Marcus Garvey.>In fact, it's been a prominent catchcry of black groups that America is not holding itself to its promise.It's not White people's fault. We now have the hydra of the New Left defining politics in this country as we speak. It's a place where hucksters like Tim Wise and Jane Elliott can rake in tons of cash attacking white people. It's a place where the SPLC can successfully sue Tom Metzger for a crime he played no part in committing. It's a place where groups like Pacific Education Group can peddle "Critical Race Theory" in hundreds of school districts across the country. Even the statement "It's okay to be white" causes trouble in and of itself.Tell me, when will "racial justice" end? When Blacks have majority rule? When the White Right has been rendered politically irrelevant?>I worry you have no sense of moral responsibility.I worry more about the place and political power of White Americans in a country that will be increasingly hostile towards them. What the Nazis did in the past is of no concern to me. What matters to me is that White Americans can pursue their political destiny in the country they founded.
>>6769691>ignoring they got the water working adequately just with what was at the campSo much for master race engineering skills...
>>6769698The top 1% in the US is below 250,000 people
>>6769693Looking at other accounts it seems that due to manpower shortages the Hungarians and the few SS that were left to handover were kept on to keep order for the first few days until more troops arrived, but they weren't supposed to be armed. Can't find anything about what happened to them yet, but the commandant was made to move the bodies in the potatoe patch at gun point by a British officer.
>>6769708>US is synonymous with "world" and "planet"AMERICA FUCK YEAH
>>6769715It's easier to find american statistics on something that was created by americans. Yes.
>>6769730If the Wehrmacht could advance as fast as you moved those goalposts, they might have won the war.
>>6769743Do you think I'm stupid enough to consider that not bait?
>>6769730This is the absolute worst cope possible you goddamn kikenigger. You can't just apply American statistics to the entire planet unless you're absolutely braindead, and it takes just as much time to type in "world Jew statistics" as it does to type in "American Jew statistics", fuckface.
>>6769773>REEEEEEEEEE NOT MY COUNTRYIt's pretty apparent that your statistics were wrong, so if you don't have an argument, please piss off.
>>6769702>It's a place where the SPLC can successfully sue Tom Metzger for a crime he played no part in committing.>Thomas Linton Metzger (born April 9, 1938) is an American white supremacist, skinhead leader and former Klansman. He founded White Aryan Resistance (WAR). He was a Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan in the 1970s. Metzger has voiced strong opposition to immigration to the United States. In the early 1980s, he was registered with the Democratic Party. In 1980 he won the Democratic nomination for a seat in the United States House of Representatives. He has been incarcerated in Los Angeles County, California, and in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, and has been the subject of several lawsuits and government inquiries. He, his son, and WAR were fined $12 million as a result of the murder of an Ethiopian by skinheads affiliated with WAR.
>>6769788Show me how my statistics of 15 million world Jews and 75 million world 1%ers is wrong, nigger
>>6769474>>6769479But Nazis are literally evil incarnate I dont believe you
>>6769796I already did and you got mad about it. So tuff big guy.
>>6769661>you do not seem to actually know what you are talking about, as evidenced by your constant retreat from my substantive claims about denial's association with far right groups and references to specific figures, periods of time, and thought within the movement itselfYou're confusing my refusal to address that portion of your post with any interest in the events of the Holocaust. I stated quite plainly that 12 million Jews could've died and it wouldn't have swayed me a single bit. What matters more to me is that the entire timeline has been the pretext to undermine any/all Nationalist sentiments which is essential for White Americans to unite as a single political consciousness against the New Left.>>6769789>He, his son, and WAR were fined $12 million as a result of the murder of an Ethiopian by skinheads affiliated with WAR.Which they had no responsibility for. The fact that skinheads got into a streetfight with an Ethiopian should not implicate Tom Metzger in any fashion. The SPLC had the flimsiest case against him imaginable because he didn't order those men to assault non-whites, particularly Mr. Seraw. They did that on their own accord. The only reason the Metzgers lost is because no lawyer would take their case without $500k upfront.
>>6767651A magic word incels say whenever they're losing an argument
>Did he give you any idea of what types of prisoners were there? - I asked him what type of prisoners were in the camps and he answered: "Habitual criminals, felons and homosexuals." Pack it up boys, the germans were right.
>>6767819>relies 100% on MS paint infographs from a malaysian political cartoon board for his evidence>cries about others using anything else
>>6769804Your only defense was "but in America" which doesn't at all defend your claims that you made that were applied to the whole globe.One day we'll shut their lying dirty /pol/ish mouths
>>6768476lmao you sound like a negro crying about whites
>>6769817>>6769823Come on guys we had a good thread going, go shitpost on /v/
>A council of centralized Jewish leadership that has no documentation or evidence to ever existing decides to fake "the holocaust" as part of a plot to take over the world and enslave the Master Race>Plant the seeds for decades (centuries?) in advance long before WW1 even happened (/pol/ often uses the old "six million" references as evidence of a conspiracy)>None of this is ever discovered or found out>Somehow orchestrate in the middle of WW2 the mass disappearance of 11 million people including 6 million jews and 5 million non-jews>covertly relocate these people secretly to ??? (Israel I guess?)>build all these complex facilities and phony camps that were actually resorts with theaters and swimming pools and etc>falsify thousands of documents, photographs, etc>create thousands of fake mass graves and fill them with fake bodies in the middle of nazi-controlled territory>pay off millions of witnesses of dozens of nationalities, none of whom EVER break the silence that they were in fact in on a gargantuan conspiracy>Pay off every single historian to have existed at the time or has existed since, they're all in on it too and none of them ever blab>All the nazi's are in on it too as not one of them denied the holocaust took place at their trials, just their individual responsibility. >The leaders of every country in the world is in on that, including both sides of the Cold War>Jews coordinate all this despite no real method of communication at the time. Moreover not a single document exists of them communicating so it was all psychic I guess>No paper trail of this MASSIVE unprecedented operation that has spanned now many years exists.>Somehow THIS is more believable than the nazi's killing the people they said they always wanted to killHow did the Jews manage this when Nixon couldn't even keep Watergate a secret?
>>6769806>Which they had no responsibility for. The fact that skinheads got into a streetfight with an Ethiopian should not implicate Tom Metzger in any fashion. The SPLC had the flimsiest case against him imaginable because he didn't order those men to assault non-whites, particularly Mr. Seraw. They did that on their own accord. The only reason the Metzgers lost is because no lawyer would take their case without $500k upfront.>Metzger's decision to represent himself at his trial became the source of considerable civic derision through the legal incompetence which he displayed — never more so than when he accepted an option for a new trial judge during the initial stages of the trial in place of the interim appointed judge whom he thought was Jewish; only after he had made his decision did he discover that the new judge, Ancer L. Haggerty, was African American.>At the trial, WAR national vice president Dave Mazzella testified about how the Metzgers instructed WAR members to commit violence against minorities.Why is it that libertarians are always so concerned with the welfare of Nazis?
>>6768627If the Holocaust really was nothing more than a typhus epidemic, why did Nazi Germany never come forward about it? If their goal was not the destruction of European Jews, why would they deal with this epidemic as secretively and ambiguously as possible instead of publicizing the event? The supposed typhus epidemic was never mentioned at Nuremberg; in fact, most mentions of that disease were related to medical experimentation involving the DELIBERATE inoculation of typhus to unknowing camp inmates.http://nuremberg.law.harvard.edu/documents/193-testimony-concerning-typhus-and?q=*#p.1
>>6769835Inb4 some one claims this is a train crash. A train crash where everyone was naked. And the rescuers were all shirtless. And there was a barbed wire fence facing towards the track for some reason.
>>6768975How did the jewish bankers force Hitler to declare war on the US?
>>676984930,000 JEWS A DAY I SAID, NO FEWER
>>6769208It's not the jews/holocausts fault that women are repulsed by you
>>6769208>these are the creatures that act superior to blacks
>>6769837These secret camps would also have to have been built in the middle of active war zones swarming with soldiers, without the Germans themselves knowing.
>Did you subsequently find out who these people were who were dealing these blows? - I found out from talking to inmates of the camp that they were what is known as functionaries, that is, inmates who were given special disciplinary powers over their other inmates. They had various names: Lagerältester, Blockälteste, and stellvertreter and Kapo, a fairly complicated hierarchy.They never talk about how fellow inmates were the worst offenders
>>6769299I'm saying you need to dilate
>>6769326oh fuck off, you incels are the only ones who obsess over it. Also you goblins are never even white to begin with. Stop LARPing pedro
>>6769472>The NAACP was founded by Jews,3 founders of the NAACP according to their own website:>W.E.B. DuBois (not Jewish)>Ida b. Wells (not Jewish)>Mary White Ovington (not Jewish)
>>6769876They talk about it all the time if you have more than a casual glance at the topic.
>>6769603weird how jewish historians debunked this
>Hannover gets bombed>all power is lost to 18,000 square miles>Why wasn't the plumping working in the concentration camps anon?!
>>6769652do you want affirmative action or something?
>>6769841Once you read the whole story, it becomes increasingly obvious Dave Mazzella could've lied under oath:https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2014/11/1998_story_legacy_of_a_hate_cr.htmlhttps://www.wweek.com/portland/article-2435-skinhead-revisited.htmlThe killing was due to a street fight rather than a premeditated, racially motivated attack that many assume it was. The involved skinheads initially denied that the killing was racially motivated. However, the prosecution consulted the SPLC and skinheads were given a plea bargain deal that included the stated admission of a racial motivation. This admission was then used by the SPLC in their lawsuit against Metzger. The star witness for the prosecution was Dave Mazzella who had contacts with both Metzger who did not live in Portland and with skinheads in Portland. Mazzella had not moved to Portland to organize skinheads as alleged by the SPLC and actually had little influence among skinheads. A crucial meeting held just hours before the killing focused more on a desire for beer and girlfriends than the need to attack Blacks. The trial was mishandled because Metzger insisted on representing himself and there was no effective cross-examination of any of the SPLC's witnesses.
>>6769898>manual pump is up and running within 48 hours of the British arrivingWhat did they mean by this?
>>6769905>complete and utter disarray among the germans>a well fed and rested army does a better jobBut you know, muh narrative
>>6769914It was a German who suggested it to the British actually.
>>6769891Moskowitz was Jewish. The major money that funded the organization came from Jews. That's what matters more.
>>6769922>Moskowitz was JewishNot a primary founder> The major money that funded the organization came from Jews.proofs>That's what matters more.So we go from "they were the founders" to "they funded it". Way to goalpost.
>>6769917Yes, the brits took over administration of the camp and things started to work out again.
>>6769922what matters more is it's not jews fault that you're universally despised, and nobody but filthy incel goblins gives a shit about muh scary black pplz
>>6769935The Jewish community contributed greatly to the NAACP's founding and continued financing. Jewish historian Howard Sachar writes in his book A History of Jews in America that "In 1914, Professor Emeritus Joel Spingarn of Columbia University became chairman of the NAACP and recruited for its board such Jewish leaders as Jacob Schiff, Jacob Billikopf, and Rabbi Stephen Wise."https://web.archive.org/web/20090301185659/http://www.myjewishlearning.com/history_community/Modern/Overview_The_Story_19481980/America/PWPolitics/CivilRights.htm
>>6769952You don't get enough pussy to be called a dudebro.
>>6769972And you don't have enough free will to be a playable character.
>Were the SS personnel placed under any restraint the first day you arrived there? - On the day we arrived they were informed by Colonel Taylor that for any inmate of the camp who was shot one SS man would be shot.
>From the information you got from these internees with whom you spoke did you come to the conclusion that these Blockältesten and so on were members of the camp staff? - No. They were definitely internees or prisoners, inmates of the camp nominated and exploited by the camp staff. In particular, I was told a large number were professional criminals who were being used in this particular way, that is to say thieves or murderers.
>>6770044Epic gamer reference.
>Do you remember saying in the affidavit: "Subsequently most of the concrete basins were found by the medical officers to contain several corpses"? - It is possible that in the affidavit I said that, but it was not something that I saw myself and therefore it is not my direct evidence.>But this one corpse you have told us about is not one you know of your own knowledge, that is only one you heard of, is it? - Yes. In other words, I am not in my mind quite clear whether the medical officer told me of several or one, but today I preferred to give the defendants the benefit of the doubt and said one.
>Have you any knowledge while being in Belsen Camp of any acts of revenge on the part of the prisoners against their fellow prisoners called block seniors or assistants or other smaller function? - I saw seven dead bodies in a mutilated condition in the overflow camp, Camp No. 2, on the first morning, and it was reported to me they had just been killed by the inmates. They were lying in the square with their faces very badly mutilated and clothes partially removed.
>>6767542And again, a /his/ Holocaust thread turns into a shitshow.
>>6769950>claims they founded it>goalpost to "contributed"oh no no no no....
>>6770062>>>6770062 #Why ever would the guards choose professional criminals and murderers to have a privileged position in the prisoners hierarchy in return for helping beat and suppress the other prisoners? Really makes you think...
>>6767542WHERE ARE THE BONES?!
>>6767542This thread was a dumpster fire
>>6772641So an average holocaust thread. Good to know
>>6772641You can't expect the (((Cuckolds))) to give an honest or intelligent argument. That's why they have to silence all dissent.
>>6768539>1000 years after Christianity was adoptedYou mean, when urbanisation and commerce had grown back after centuries of gradual development, with a coinage economy and literate mercantile middle class? Do you seriously think banks were necessary or even feasible in the Carolingian days?
>>6769876Ghetto Police and camp Kapos aren't a secret to anyone who bothered to read even a pop history book on the subject. I think some movies like Schindler List and The Pianist even acknowledge them.
>>6767542It's impossible because any retard you try to convince just returns to 'ITS FAKE!' and then proceeds to post bullshit infographs and books from some greedy asshole trying to get money
>>6775870The entire reason whatshisname survived at all in The Pianist is because his ghetto policeman friend drags him out of the queue about to be put on a train to a camp while the rest of his family get on. It's a prominent and memorable scene.