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/his/ - History & Humanities


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What does /his/ think about Hungary?

Also, looking for some book recommendations.
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>>6619035
Is this Hungarian bitching?
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>>6619057
looks like it
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>>6619057
"The cruelty of Trianon applied to other countries"
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>>6619035
>What does /his/ think about Hungary?
I dont.
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Imagine being butthurt enough to make that map lol
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>>6619161
>Imagine being butthurt enough to make that map lol

Kek
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>>6619177
>>Imagine being butthurt enough to make that map lol
>Kek
Rofl
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>>6619035
croatia wasn't even part of hungary proper, though, and had a political scandal when rijeka was incorporated into hungary proper as corpus separatum
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Trianon was a mistake
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>>6619177
>>6619290
They make a good point tho.
They didn't necessarily deserve all the territory loss.
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>>6619035
Trianon was amazing
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>>6619035
They like to cry about losing territory in Trianon but in reality they were given land from Romania and Serbia by the West. Which is a mistake because they not only deserved that but also were one of the main reasons why the Monarchy lost the war.
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best magyars
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Trianon wasn't harsh at all relative to the initial claims of the neighboring states. Hungary would been even smaller than it was today if these had been enforced and the Entente powers which some insult today were the ones that prevented this in the first place. Hungary actually regained land that they lost during 1918-1919.
This is also backed up by the fact that Hungarian control in the lost lands effectively collapsed as foreign troops backed up by locals occupied and took control of these lands in late 1918 and early 1919. It was unlikely for Hungary to keep a significant part of these lands which now were openly hostile to the Budapest government. By the time the Hungarian Soviet republic was defeated they barely controlled even half of today's Hungary.

Off course some will ignore all this and simplistically call it a Hungarian "tragedy" and lament endlessly.
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>>6620294
This. Eternal Hun had it coming either way for screwing up the AH internally. Magyars geci are the last people to complain about the outcome of the ww1
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>>6619035
Based Hungary standing up for their ethnic hegemony over the minorities
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>>6619971
There are some parts that were unwarranted for being taken away, particularly a chunk of southern Slovakia and parts of Vojvodina. Székely Land is trickier because it was going to be sloppy no matter what, and I think ultimately the best solution is just a second independent Hungarian state, or at least an autonomous region within Romania. As for the rest, however, there was nothing wrong with some of the territorial concessions, particularly for areas where there was little Hungarian cultural presence.
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>seething slavoids and gypsies
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>>6620564
>gypsies
*new Hungarians

>>(Gypsies) first appeared in Hungary in the 14th and 15th
>>Gypsy groups were even granted privileges, first under King Sigismund(1387-1437) and King Matthias(1458-1490), right up to the beginning of the 18th century.
>>Maria Theresa enacted a decree prohibiting the use of the name "Gypsy" and requiring the terms "new peasant" and "new Hungarian" to be used instead.
>>She placed restrictions on Gypsy marriages,ordered gypsy children to be taken away from Gypsies, so that they could be raised in hungarian "burgeouis" or "peasant" families.
>> Joseph II prohibited use of the Gypsy language in 1783.
>Gypsy population end up assimilating in Hungarian society, in 19th century
>new wave of Gypsy immigration in the second half of the 19th century

Source: Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Budapest, 2004
http://www.mfa.gov.hu/NR/rdonlyres/05DF7A51-99A5-4BFE-B8A5-210344C02B1A/0/Roma_en.pdf

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/ef3c/5827b13cb2cbef80c387892bc1696da3bca4.pdf

http://www.sulinet.hu/oroksegtar/data/magyarorszagi_nemzetisegek/altalanos/kortanc_sorozat/magyarorszagi_ciganyok/pages/004_maria.htm

http://rombase.uni-graz.at/cgi-bin/art.cgi?src=data/hist/modern/maria.en.xml
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>>6619290
>>>Imagine being butthurt enough to make that map lol
>>Kek
>Rofl
Top zozzle
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>>6619035
cope harder
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>>6620294
pretty much this; after the 1919 war, Romania had occupied Budapest and half of what is today Hungary, so technically Hungarians were actually given back land by the Western powers. Had they been left at the mercy of their many neighbors, Hungary wouldn't have probably existed anymore, they were that hated...
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>>6619035
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>>6619035
what a retarded image
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>>6620936
That's not nice, anon.
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>>6620564
Why do you think we are seething? After all we gained lands, we didn't lose them
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>>6620294
>Trianon wasn't harsh at all relative to the initial claims of the neighboring states
that's not saying much considering how absurd the initial claims were
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Vae Victus
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>splitting up ethnically homogeneous states is the same as splitting up a pluralistic empire
OH NO NO NO
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>>6621183
>USA
>British Empire
>German Empire
>French Third Republic
>ethnically homogeneous
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>>6620977
(((((((we))))))))

>>6620294
This is disingenuous at best or perhaps right out mala fides. If you go by your logic, the French should have been thankful that the Germans annexed Alsace-Lorraine since they occupied much more territory in 1871. Of course nations will want to reclaim lost or stolen territory. Almost all lands lost in Triannon were constituents of the crownlands of St. Steven for the past 900 years. You can justify Triannon as conquest, but little else as plebiscites were NEVER held in annexed territory (save for Ödenburg which voted to join the Hungarian state). This is a direct violation of Wilson's points. Of course this was done because many large cities on the border were majority Hungarian, such as Várad or Cassovia and would have voted to join Hungary had they been given a chance.

Also there was also no Allied consensus about what Hungary would look like after ww1. France didn't care about Slovakia and was willing to give it all to Hungary, but wanted to give Romanian's (their "pet" minority) everything east of the Theiss river.

>>6621183
Almost every country on that list is as ethnically diverse or more so than Hungary in 1918.
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>>6621300
>mfw Trianon
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>>6619971
They did though. They were more responsible than anyone else for starting World War I and very little of the lands they lost were inhabited by Hungarians even after centuries of Magyarizarization.
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>>6621300
> Almost every country on that list is as ethnically diverse or more so than Hungary in 1918.
Hungary in 1918 was 48% Hungarian speaking and 52% non-Hungarian speaking. US, UK and France were over 90% made up of their respective native language speakers.
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>>6619971
They did tho
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>>6619035
>partitioned UK
>England gets to keep Wales
Heh.
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>>6619035
I'd would support partitioning those countries too
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>>6619035

>What does /his/ think about Hungary?

I, for one, think that Hungary is a fascinating and incredibly comfy country with a rich history and an interesting culture. Which we'll never be able to properly discuss, because it will inevitably turn into gloating over Trianon.
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>>6622100
this desu
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>>6619035
US secretary of state Robert Lansing on Triannon "This distribution did not appear very just. In every possible case the decision seems to be given against the Hungarians"

At the time President Wilson said: “The proposal to dismember Hungary is absurd”

Sir Winston Churchill said: “Ancient poets and theologians could not imagine such suffering, which Trianon brought to the innocent.”

Basically we only get bloated puffed up Romania because of the devilish French. If the Anglo-American delegation had been more resolute and firm we would have a more normal Europe. As an American, this is one of the few historical things I feel guilty about.
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>>6622238
>join hitler to conquer land
>lose
>lose land
>cry for 80 years
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>>6622318
romania also joined hitler
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As a fan of zither instruments, the Hungarian cimbalom is bretty awesome.

https://youtu.be/0mR0_nFTato

Being on a plain and all, they also have their own type of cowboys, which appeals to a burger like me

https://youtu.be/CiYsphB1XWA
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>>6621300
>Almost all lands lost in Triannon were constituents of the crownlands of St. Steven for the past 900 years.
Budapest was literally Ottoman land you retard
Austrians gave Transylvania to Hungary
Transylvania would've been an separate state voivodeship (like it was for most of the history)
And whiteout magyarization and ethnic cleansing Hungary would not have even Budapest

>1850 Budapest
>56% germans 33% hungarians
>1910 Budapest
>90% hungarians

>1850 Brasov
>40% romanian 40% german 13% hungarian
>1910 Brasov
>43% hungarian, 28% romanian 26% german

after the habsburg gave Transylvania to hungarians in 1866, they imported new hordes of gipsies from the Ottoman empire, whose offsprings have invaded now the entire europe
Even the germans from Transylvania hated Hungarians in 1900
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>>6619035
Chill people. Good allies in european politics
I'm italian
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>>6622417
>Austrians gave Transylvania to Hungary
>Transylvania would've been an separate state voivodeship (like it was for most of the history)
lmao, romanian historical revisionism at its finest
Transylvania was a subunit of the Hungarian kingdom, and it's voivode was appointed by the king of Hungary to serve as an administrator similar to the bans of Croatia and Slavonia. It became a separate entity after the succession crisis when the Ottomans killed Louis II of Hungary. The high nobility elected the Ferdinand Habsburg as king of Hungary who took control of the Western parts of the kingdom, while the smaller nobles supported the Hungarian nobleman John Szapolyai who took control of the Eastern parts, including Transylvania. He styled himself king of Hungary until his successor made a deal with the habsburgs and relinquished his claim, taking the title of "Prince of Transylvania" instead. Even during this time it was continuously ruled by Hungarians (except for 1 (one) year) and they had the long term political goal of reunifying Hungary. When the Austrians later reclaimed the kingdom, they maintained this artificial division to keep Hungary weak. It was reunified with Hungary in 1867 with the Austro-Hungarian compomise. The Austrians didn't "give" it to Hungary as some sort of charity, it was a concession forced by the Hungarians by the very real threat of rebellion that could have ended the empire right then and there.
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>>6622411
>cimbalom
Good choice, but time to take the nyenyere pill.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OELxyNx6OI
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>>6622423

Well met, vertical Hungary. Our nations have usually gotten along well, may it remain so.
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>>6620548
>There are some parts that were unwarranted for being taken away, particularly a chunk of southern Slovakia

You do realise those parts were basically 50/50 on population, right? They were border regions inhabited by both nationalities. If all people there were Hungarians, they would have pulled a Ukraine and joined Hungary, instead.
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>>6622676
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>>6622642
In 1596-1600 and well before and after that the ruler of Transylvania was making his alliances as he pleased, whiteout giving a fuck about some Hungarian crown.
After that Austrians "ruled" it by installing puppets
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>>6622642
Funny that the best thing to ever happen to Hungary was the Ottomans coming in the Balkans.
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>>6619035
This is what Hungary gets for not genociding its ethnic minorities when nobody would have gave a shit. Based Turkey got off easier than Hungary specifically because they mass murdered their own citizens, and that's a good thing.
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>>6622238
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>>6620877
Real life isn't like hoi4 where you can just annex a whole modern country and magically keep it under your boot forever, retard.
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>>6622931
Then explain what happened with Transilvania. Which has a bigger territory than Hungary , fyi
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>>6622958
>>6622931
People don't know, but Romanians are good at ethnic cleansing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dobruja
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>>6622958
Transylvania already had a Vlach majority. Imagine a bloated greater Romania where half the people are Hungarians, Ukrainians, Bulgarians, Turks, etc... Suddenly YOU are the new Austria-Hungary and will tumble under the weight of your own idiotic imperialist delusions just as they did. The idea of a post-19th century continental empire is the most retarded meme ever devised in a power-fantasising map painter's childlike cranium. This idea has always failed.
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>>6622994
>That sudden drop in Bulgarians
Uhhh
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>>6622423
>Good allies in european politics
>I'm Italian
You have to go back
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>>6622922
This.The only thing the Hungarians did wrong was not magyarizing everybody earlier and harder.
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>>6623017
Bulgarians and Romanians had a population exchange
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>>6623017
Population exchange. Romanian colonists in Southern Dobruja (returned to Bulgaria) and Aromanian natives in Bulgaria itself left north, Bulgarians from northern Dobruja came south.
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>>6619035
ALL THESE SEEETHING HUNGAYRIANS ITT
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>>6623017
Population exchange, Communists did it
Funny thing Romanian communists were also deporting Russians and Ukrainians to Siberia,
Sad they didn't considered Gypsies a problem.
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>>6619035
>Hungarians claiming even Fiume
TRIANON 2.0 WHEN?
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>>6623059
The population exchange took place in 1940 after the treaty of Craiova, communists had nothing to do with it.
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>>6619035
Wouldn't this have kind of liberated Hungary somewhat from having to deal with large foreign populations within their own state agitating for their own interests and determination, and instead just focus on Hungarian matters? Because most of that land they lost wasn't inhabited by Hungarians.
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>>6623078
OK my bad, second part is true tho
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>>6619971
Vae Victis
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>>6622652

That’s pretty neat, not gonna lie my man
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>>6619035
Not Hungary related but I'm making my way through Cavemen with Smartphones:how evolution shaped history and finance and it's pretty good!
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>>6619971
Except they did deserve it and they dont make a good point at all.

Hungayrians were an absolute minority in all of the regions they lost, despite a draconian magyarisation policy they pursued.

>ind4 butthurt magyar replies
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>>6622365
Romania was capable enough to break off from the alliance and turn on the germans.
Hungary being the incompetent little shithole it is tried to pull the same feat and failed miserably.
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>>6621226
during the period in which the trianon happened all those countries were pretty homogenous
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>>6619035
>What does /his/ think about Hungary?
I think those niggers need to get a sandwich or something.
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>>6622238
>Caring about what Ruin the World Wilson and his cocksuckers say
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Hungary has a special place in my heart because it's one of the places Calvinism took root, along with Scotland and Holland.

Also I think it's pretty cool how they originally invaded Europe and seized the Carpathian Basin. Steppe culture and DNA made all Europeans strong and Hungarians are the least removed from it.
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>>6625122
Based
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>>6619035
Interesting history but threads here get derailed by /int/ garbage and Balkan niggers, like how you can't have a good thread about Turkey.
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>>6624890
>Ruin the world Wilson
Someone has had a little too much screen time. Stop insulting one of our best presidents.
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>>6620654
Now why would you ever post the picture of prime minister Viktor Orban next to aricles about gypsies? I don't understand....
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>>6619035
That pic is so retarded.
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>>6620713
>>>>Imagine being butthurt enough to make that map lol
>>>Kek
>>Rofl
>Top zozzle
Lmao
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>>6625122
>liking h*ngary for being c*lvinists and steppe niggers
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>>6619035
Ironic that hey show Germany losing everything East of the Oder to Poland.
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>>6619921
But didn't the Hungarians and Croatians like each other better than the Croats and Serbs?

Religion can play just as big a role as culture/language. That's one of the reasons Belgium exists.
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>>6627170
episode 6 leak
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>>6627219
No, Hungarians preferred Serbs because they could use them to counter Croatian unity and demands. Which they did.
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>>6619136
Nonsense, it's ethnic lines pretty much.

Should have supported the Kaiser gulash fags.
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>>6625122
Hungarian women have a special place on my penis
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>>6622417
So nice you casually ignore the fact Budapests population grew by 5x in that period, so did other towns grew immenseily.
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>>6622676
Erm, nope.

Theres a funny story about this. So the county I lived in was pretty exactly shaved in half by Trianon. A 1900 Hungarian encylopedia's description of my county's demographucs states: "... that half [cut off by the Danube] is almost entirely inhabited by Hungarians, while the other half has sizeable German and Slovak communities."

plot twist, the pure Hungarian part got annexed by Czechoslovakia.
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>>6622958
The Romanian state forced itseld onto Transylvania, confiscating the wealth of Hungarians and of the Catholic & Protestant churches, took away schools, universities and other public insitutions. But since half of it was Romanian they had enough boots to keep it under control.


Regardless this did cause great dissent and its little suprise why relations were so strained in the weeks before the second Vienna decision both countries mobilized their forces.
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>>6624691
Actually linguistic borders barely shifted during this so-called draconian magyarization period.
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>>6627581
>Romanians had majority in Transilvania and annexed it
>Hungary: Picachu face
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>>6623085
The problem lies in the fact 1/3rd of all Hungarians now lived outside of Hungary and they all wanted to be part of Hungary.
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>>6627935
They could pack their shit and move to Hungary. Next time try not to lose the war
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>>6625136
this board really needs flags
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>>6628011
then why didn't all the r*manians pack their shit and leave hungary if they hated being magyarized that much?
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>>6628091
Because they waited for Romania to curbstomp Hungary
Gg no re
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>>6627596
Yeah because hungayrians were pretty incompetent and because the locals were very resilient.
Doesnt change the fact that Hungary was behaving like a total dick and had it coming.
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>>6627935
>>6628091

This attitude just proves my earlier point. One can only justify Triannon by conquest. There is no morality to it- only the Schopenhauerian will of the victor of the vanquished.

It is interesting though that the Magyars are the only one who the treaty still applies to. The three unnatural "Frankenstein nations" the entente made of the Weltkreig are dead. Yugoslavia dissolved, Czechoslovakia split apart, and Even the Romanian Empire is crumbling with Moldova being free from Romanian hands. I think we will see a return to the natural order soon.



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