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>modern art BAD! WHY NO LOOK LIKE OLD ROMAN TIME STATUES? WHY HAVE SCARY SHAPES? REEEEEE
anti-modernists are brainlets
prove me wrong
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Art died after the romantics
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it's babby, just a cartoon

>made you look
so did a naked homeless guy taking a shit on the side of the freeway, where's his money?
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>>6465940
Cubism and futurism, for example, are cool. They're nice to look at and they do make me feel things.
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>>6465940
I like that painting...
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>>6465933
>messed up bed art
>shitted toilet art
>old roman statues patriarchy, i don't want
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>>6465933
I can't, because you are right
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>>6465933
Some of it's good, some of it's bad. Same goes for older art. It's a matter of taste at the end of the day.
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>>6465940
>i don't understand modern art therefor it is stupid
Why is reddit so cringey?
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Let's be real for a moment, hate for modern art is the modern reddit things ever.
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>>6466021
if so it is one of the few things they're right about
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>>6466021
>x is reddit
well I'm convinced
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>>6466027
You need to fix yourself some acquired taste my sweetie.
The only peoplewho hate modern art are people who do not consume art and hence don't understand the purpose of it, mixing itwith an idea of either-orism because they only learn about art from memes about modern art.
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>>6465985
eh, it doesn't look like it was made by a toddler but the pink and orange is kinda garish, although I do like the brush strokes and blending in the middle
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>>6465933
Aside from the whole greco-roman masturbation, why should art be something we all can't participate in? "It' art because it's difficult to make" is something i don't understand.
>a child could make it
yes. children participate in art. hell, a child's work is amazingly interesting until it gets butchered in kindergarten by "well-meaning" teachers showing them what is worthy of being drawn and how it ought to be drawn.
so tell me, why ought art be something always beyond reach, something you cannot express, cannot make make but only consume? why is art a property of the "professional artist" and the critic? why did the liberation of the avant-garde fail? why ought art be a commodity instead of an act? from my gutter i piss upon all of you.
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Ok. Show me some good modern art then
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>>6466058
Dude...
Art means some images I can attach to my posts about western supremacy while being a bitter neet.
Literally noone on /pol/ ever studied (ie learned about) art or who wrote half the pictures they post or why they were remarkable
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>>6466064
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>>6466021
Redditors confuse modern with postmodern and think it's all just random for the sake of randomness.
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>>6466042
>2deep4u sweety
yadda yadda

I do understand it. Let's say you want to express X and you find an imaginative creative way to do it, but you're not a classically trained sculptor or don't put much effort into it, that's great, but it's not art, or at least not very good art, you could write your idea on a piece of paper "western civilization is a big pile of steaming shit lol" and it would make no difference. Now let's say you spend 18 months creating your masterpiece, 10000s of crystals melted together which at certain angles diffract light to reveal african tribal totem like figures which tell the story of the black struggle before finally finishing with a big pile of steaming shit or something. That's a bit better than what we usually see.
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>>6466080
Look I'm not buying this for 12million unless you tell me that brown colour up there is poop or menstrual blood.
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shit art
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>>6466080
I'm not an art aficionado by any means but it still surprises me that people will honestly say this is just random splatters. Noise is not eye catching, it's actually really boring looking because pure randomness quickly averages out. I couldn't say if Pollock's art has some deeper meaning or not but I can say that it looks cool.
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Modern art is a money laundering scheme/CIA weapon.
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>look mom I figured out the meaning of this unappealing mess of shit, I beat the video game bing bing wahoo
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>>6466097
>but it's not art, or at least not very good art
Yes it is. What you mean is craft. Although there isa modern art movement of hyoerrealism but I know you don't care about facts.

>western civilization is a big pile of steaming shit lol
I bet you a million dollars no person that ever writes this engages classical european art seriously.

>evaluating art's worth by effort not expression
Based labor-theory of value retard. But no.

>all these vileness and tryhard smugness
Deus Vult my incel
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>>6466108
>all this delusional projection
>implying people who look into modern art are more likely to be gamers than the memesters that discard it offhand without even attempting to understand it's intent.
Yikesidi
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>>6466097
So... Your position is that some kind of official classic training makes you an artist? It is a vulgar way to comprehend art for people with no taste. Literally, they make *huge effort* so it must be *artistic masterpiece* backwards thinking.
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Woodcuts are a good medium.
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>>6466080
It is more impressive as an actual piece. Digital art doesn't do justice to it.
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>>6466064
The first result in google.
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>>6466131
Point is, modern art has become a fucking game. Since there is no aesthetic value to be gained, the only thing to do is to deduce its purport. And once that is done, the art ceases to function because it is nothing but the purport, albeit expressed in an indirect and inefficient manner. Classical art looked good and was meaningful - modern art is merely meaningful.
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>>6466124
>hyperrealism
I'm not talking about hyperrealism, necessarily
>effort
the highest forms of expression invariably require effort

>retard
>incel
all this because I don't pretend to like something because it is fashionable

I'm just saying things like pic are interesting ideas in low quality art form, they might be the most brilliant idea in the world, but the "art" is a cartoon, it goes in a book on my coffee table, not chiseled in marble in my entrance hall
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>>6466149
First off no. There is a truckload of beautiful modern art.
but more importantly:
>modern art is merely meaningful
So? How is that an argument against it. It incorporates tools and perspectives the classical never could to express themselves.

There is no competition. You can like this about that and that about this. The only people who discard the validity of modern based ona supremacy of classical are people who want art to be representive (for others)
I mostly prefer barock but that doesn't mean I cannot enjoy some other style as well.
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>>6465933
This particular painting or whatever you wanna call it is good, splashing bunch of paint on canvas isn’t
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>>6466150
>retard
>all this because I don't pretend to like something because it is fashionable
no it was mockery of your nonsensical standart of evaluating something's worth in the assumption you do not actually suscribe to that if you thought it through.

>not chiseled in marble in my entrance hall
Aside from the fact that you have no entrance hall what a perfect example of what I was saying. Your only concern is ab-using art to increase your social standing by having the correct taste.
Same reason you have to affirm an objective quality of art.
Sad really.
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>>6465933
>the only thing in this thread that even be considered artistic is the OP
im convinced
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>>6466064
Here you go
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>>6466175
if I wanted to increase my social standing I'd put modern art in my entrance hall, pseuds like you would be on your knees congratulating me for my fashionable tastes
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>>6466064
>>
>something that has no meaning
>good
pick 1
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>>6466190
So you don't want to increase your social standing but you also want to put art in your entrance hall. But not modern art, because you totally DON'T want to increase your social standing, right?
You want to put art in your entrance hall, the entrance hall that the most people can see, but it's totally not to increase your social standing you guys. You totally didn't slip and show anon over here that you see art as a commodity, that you are a pseud, and that you wish you had an entrance hall.
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>>6466212
This reads like an anuerism, anon. You're melting down trying to work an insult out of the boundaries you've set for youself.
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>>6465985
Same. They look like an explosion of brightness (light, pink) those strokes in middle from left to right, from a cold start (left) turning blazing hot (right).
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>>6466080
It's all pixelated. The actual thing is huge. It looks really cool when it fills most of your field of vision.
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>>6466289
If you want to attack people on their entirely correct sentences, you may want to check out your grammar. It's "aneurysm".
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>>6466149
> modern art has become a fucking game
So was an art of the past, just with different rules. Also, it isn't like art supped just to be an eyecandy or photorealitic painting.
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>>6466150
> it goes in a book on my coffee table
Retarded argument. I had fucking Duhrer as the cover of my notebook. At this point, it is literally arguing about status symbols (we can't spent billions on marble decoration of it) instead of artistic expression.
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I hate almost all modern arts except keith harring and andy Warhol's artworks. I think all of them are masterpiece for some reason
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>>6466326
That's spelling, not grammar. And i wasn't criticising yours, i was pointing out how desperate it reads.
Try harder.
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It's a common error to mush all non-realistic art together, but there's a clear division between expressionism, cubism, futurism and surrealism who are still figurative, and dadaism or abstract. People who don't like the latter can still have an appreciation for Van Gogh or Magritte, possibly because their art has still a foot on earth.
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>>6465933
Anti-modernists are generally just confused. What they actually hate is post-modernist art.
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>>6465933
If your art is made for pseudo-intellectual wankfest instead of actually provoking thoughts or instigating certain feel response, it's not an art,

It's pretentious shit with a "plebs won't understand it" stamp on top of it
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>>6466559
Also that's the reason hitler is not an artist as well.
Art provokes fantasy and thinking. Being a handwriting printer is not an art.
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>>6466561
>implying the holocaust wasn't the greatest piece of performance art in history
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>*throws glove on the floor*
Make sure to watch your step “artists”, don’t want to disrespect my magnum opus
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wow much art
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>>6465933
You are not worthy the hassle.
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>>6466565
at last i truly see
adolf was just too deep
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>>6466559
I dunno, looks like you are trying to enforce some sort of lowest denominator pop art is only real art paradigm here. True art isn't for everyone. It is for the intended audience.
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>>6465933
The proof is in the pudding, moishe. You had to make good art
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>>6465933
Italian futurism and soviet avant-garde are the tits
I only know of them because I asked my sister about aesthetics in those countries
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>>6465933
Watching pseuds get butthurt over post modern art they pretend to like simply out of contrarian spite is amusing to me
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modern art is a money laundering scam
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>>6465933
>reeeee why don’t they like my ugly statues
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>>6466142
It’s titled “The Forum Poster”
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Wow, I am totally BTFO by OP!

So deep and meaningful, the amount of effort and brainpower you need to make such an inspiring piece.
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>>6466001
She needed more fibre in her diet
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>>6466080
LMFAO
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>arbitrary paintings that the painter narcissistically shoves meaning into with no actual connotation or context
why is modern art so despicable?
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>>6468786
Because in most cases, it abandons beauty out of spite.
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>>6466369
Not to the same degree as modern art is. Aesthetic appeal can and should exist beside intellectual points, because purely intellectual arguments are best expressed with words instead of pictures
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Art is just philosophy for stupid people.
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>>6468757
Glad you admitted it, brainlet.
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>>6465933
That painting is trash
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Art for arts sake.
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>>6466021
I HAVE THOISE SHOES
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>>6466823
hey ive actually seen that one irl
its much cooler up close and in person
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>>6466080

>squirting paint out of your asshole onto canvas is now art
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>>6466775
"I could take a dump and is art" is such a tired thought it impresses me people don't see the irony of it.
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>>6465933
Art should be judged art movement to art movement that being said cubism is kinda trash. Look lol strait lines ment to represent something curvey.
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>>6469497
only because you're a tool who let himself get brainwashed into thinking it's the shit

I admit there is an art to what leftists are doing to young soft supple minds though, but the "art" piece itself is trash.
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>>6470241
What is the difference between "liking a piece of art" and "being brainwashed into liking a piece of art"?
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>>6469497
The richness of the colour and it's size I think plays into that. Frankly there was more interesting stuff in the other room. That this painting faces. Most big paintings have a bigger effect on people in person. I saw it this January. It looks like a strait trash painting in photos but looks better in person.
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>>6470243
Not the other person bit I would say it's the difference between being told an artwork by peers/authorty experts is good and actually likeing it yourself.
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>>6470243
What's the difference between >>6469497 and flibble?
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>>6465933
their tiny brains can't comprehend the idea that art doesn't need to impress them
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>>6470303
>everyone said it is unimpressive but mom put it on the fridge door therefore I'm a real artist, brainlets BTFO
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>>6466058
The question is not weather or not a child's drawings are art it's just that it is bad. No thought no deliberate action, no meaning. Lastly being able to paint is a skill clearly because if it was not there would be no such thing as art schools. It's like if you put me in an airplain and told me to fly it and I was just there pressing buttons I would be flying the airplane just not well.
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>>6470303
Art is the impresion that causes you normie retard.
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>>6470243
The first one is intimate, the second social. The first one is for individuals, the second one for normies.
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>>6466136
Exquisite taste
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>>6470324
whether*
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sometimes the lowbrow simpleton is right and the highbrow academic is wrong, this is a topic where this is usually the case
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>>6466001
Every. Single. Time.
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>>6471283
What is this supposed to be showing?
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>>6470366
thanks.
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>this threas
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>>6470409
It's mostly middlebrows in these threads though
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>>6465940
What an awful post. That image is almost the equivalent of a 12 year old bitching about being born in le wrong generation in the comments section of a Led Zep video on Youtube. A big difference that makes that image contemptible rather than just plain cringeworthy is that the 12 year old might be locked in to listening to top 40 radio and the algorithms of his streaming service, unaware of the breadth of contemporary music to explore. The clown that wrote that horseshit is disinterested enough in art to not to be bothered looking for artists they might enjoy, but still the entitled cunt expects to have artists served up to them by the MASS media who by its nature are only interested in celebrity artists, not even specialist arts reportage. That and it's poorly articulated. Embarrassing that you'd think it worthy of a screenshot.
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>>6465933
If it's not beautiful I don't like it. I don't care about age or only care as necessary about movements to navigate among artists.
Lots of things called art (especially more recently) are self admitted as not being beautiful or even trying to be. They might try to do something else but it really doesn't interest me, especially the pseud things often defended to death. Material arts are particularly unsuited for anything 'conceptual'. I can read very autistic things (I unironically enjoyed Bourbaki) but matter excels in beauty, not in whatever it tried in lots of contemporary art.
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The problem is that when art was reborn, the people peddling it were pushing the boundaries of human skills. Then it was seen as too dry and more emphasis was put on the impression rather than the merit. With vain attempts at originality and difference, originality was put forward. New "styles" or whatever came by, each less sophisticated until it came to the lowest point of anti-art that which was merely a product to be sold and provoke, to make a profit. Art lost it's way with it's purpose, and that is for our future generations to be enriched, to create something great, honourable, ever-lasting, important and spiritually uplifting. We thus with modern art have betrayed not only ourselves but our own children. Do you want to leave something great worthy of inheritance, or to take part in the decadence?
Why did architects have such complicated, beautiful structures that took years to build, some that didn't get finished in the architect's lifetime? Because they wanted to make money like modern architects who create a block, add some birch wood texture and call it a day? Modern art requires no sacrifice, no selflessness, no merit, no thought, no symbology, no time, no effort, no practice, no experience, and by this if something can be practiced by everyone and anyone with skills of no value, it then shouldn't be ruled out that the outcomes are as valueless, much like from a mathematician that has no concept of what numbers are.
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>>6465933
You are posting an image from the most kino period of art history: late 19th and early 20th century, often called the 'Belle Epoque' in France (where most of the modernist movement transpired).

The modern (actually post-modern) art of today is trash and will hopefully be forgotten in the annals of history. If God has any mercy that is.
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>>6472329
The problem isn't that there are no good artists it's that increasingly popularity is synonymous with dog shit.
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>>6466150
>He doesn't understand Mondrian squares or abstraction
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>>6465933
https://vocaroo.com/i/s0ElQ1S1lyOL
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>>6473804
>le funny accent man
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Post more modern art
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>>6466080
>>6466192
>>6466823
A lot of these seemingly simple paintings need to be seen in person to due to both scale and the 3D nature of paint on canvas; the famous ones have surprising skill put into the strokes such that it produces effects based on where you stand and the natural sway of the body

That being said the later years are filled with imitator artist slapping paint down in superifical resemblance to these portraits without catching the nuances at all, so it's not all good
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I hate faggots that show realist paintings off like they're the pinnacle of art. Any of these "talentless modern artists" could easily paint a realistic scene of a person or a building. The issue is, that doesn't express anything interesting at all. It's just a pretty picture. Modern/contemporary art can be far more visceral and meaningful. What's more interesting? Pic related, or a pretty picture of a flower?
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>>6475941
Another example
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>>6475941
>Any of these "talentless modern artists" could easily paint a realistic scene of a person or a building. The issue is, that doesn't express anything interesting at all. It's just a pretty picture.
Photography basically made realism artistically obsolete.
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Haha dude art isn't special. get over it. anyone can participate in art because anything can be art! so emancipatory! oh yeah but actually for it to be considered art it has to be a visual projection of your neuroticism, and you have to be friends with an elite clique of moneyed bohemians
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>>6466104
Some things look obvious one they are done. Until Pollock, only 3 or 4 painters had put the canvas on the floor, but they were unkown (for example the first one to do it was Uruguayan so nobody cared). It may look stupid, but it aint stupid if nobody could do it before. Also, the BIGGEST issue of people saying "I dont understand modern art, its stupid" they haven't seen NOT ONCE IN THEIR LIFES a real painting on a real wall. Of course 99% of what the artist meant its lost if you look the picture in your screen. Rotko for example, ALL his philosophy was built around creating emotions thru color, in real life ot works because the paintings are like 10 feet long
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why can't i like both
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>>6465933
Oswald Spengler had a unique view of art history. He argues that all of a culture's art is made with a single expression in mind. For Western art it is of the infinite, for Greek it is of the body. Early high art is always architectural as the culture tries to find its style, as we can see in the Egyptian pyramids, Greek Doric order, and Western Gothic cathedrals. Then it transitions to the art idea, which is what gave rise to Western music as a high art, and Greek sculpture. In Spengler's mind music is the ultimate expression of the Western art idea, the one that has received frontmost significance in our culture since the Renaissance.

His opinion on the Renaissance is important. He thought that Western art was still trying to find itself at this time, so it imitated Greek sculptures without really understanding their significance. The Greeks art idea was to encapsulate the present moment of the body in sculpture and fresco. Their statues were always nude, showed no emotion, paid little attention to facial details, and they never bothered depicting a background in their frescoes and painting, in stark contrast to Western painting. This was highly symbolic to the Greeks who valued the depiction of the pure present moment above all else in their art (and this is why music was relegated to a background art for them and never became as significant for them as it did for us), but Renaissance sculptors knew nothing of the Greek art idea, and simply imitated their art without giving it any meaning. But even here, the Western art idea is evident in the special mind the Renaissance sculptors gave to the realistic form of their imitations. The nude sculpture is alien to the Western art idea, this is why most Western nude sculpture imitations come from the Renaissance, and there are actually not many of them once you start counting them up.
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>>6476633
The Western art idea of the infinite found its footing in music and oil painting. In contrast to the Greeks, realism and background details were hugely important to Western painters, things the Greeks never paid any attention to. This also gave rise to gardening as an art form, something else that would have been alien to the Greeks. But the Western soul couldn't express the infinite purely in painting, this is the reason music became the primary art of the West. Western artists created all art with the infinite as their art idea in mind, reaching ever more technical proficiency through its artistic epochs. As with Greek sculpture and fresco, Western music and painting were eventually 'perfected', for lack of a better term. The cultures had achieved everything their art idea had allowed them to achieve. This was about the year 300 BC for the Greeks, 1800 AD for the West.

After the perfection of a culture's art idea, no more great art can be created. Art becomes craft-art, that is art for the sake of art. The urge to create is still there, but the artist is, in Spengler's words, like a miner wasting his time in front of an exhausted quarry. Art is no longer symbolic. The Greeks, who once paid little attention to realism in their sculptures, started sculpting real people with realistic facial details instead of idealized sculptures of mythological figures as had been the norm for many centuries. The Romans, an extension of Greek culture, began constructing enormous vanity projects like the Colosseum, the Triumphal Arches, and the Circus Maximus.
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>>6476635
The Renaissance had given birth to the idea of art without symbolism. After the Western art idea was perfected, art without symbolism is all that's left. Art becomes increasingly meaningless, empty, artificial, and pretentious, in the hope of exciting the bored masses. Today we are seeing the full effect of this. Movies and even video games are nothing but sequels and remakes. Popular music is hedonistic repetitive garbage. 'Modern art' doesn't even need mentioning. The turn of the 21st century saw the end of art, the final nail in the coffin of Western creativity.
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The only good modern artist is one who has mastery if the form of realism and chooses to abstract it. Those who just do abstract, color splotches, and whatnot are not artists, they are phoneys, monkeys looking at the art of masters and putting in none of the effort.
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>>6465933
>WHY HAVE SCARY SHAPES?
This but unironically.
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>>6475941
>Any of these
thats a bit of a stretch. most avant garde painters' attempt at realism fail to reach the standards of an excellent realist painting. pollock for one
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>>6465933
Cbt
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>>6476639
Let me guess. It is another piece of opinion from "art should cater to plebs because it would be too hard for me to understand otherwise but I hate popular art for being a bland consumerist product" dude? Bonus points for being too lazy to find good contemporary art and regarding spoonfed classical artist as gods among mortals.
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>>6475941
>>6475951
I find this more "interesting" than a flower, but that doesn't make it art, at least not art worthy of being constantly jerked off over and given colossal spiritual worldchanging significance.

Your whole fawning attitude over it obviously isn't due to genuine appreciation of art. It is probably part and parcel of the left's hate of the west, when you see exquisite sculptures and awe inspiring cathedrals you can't just admire it the way you might admire pagodas or the taj mahal, you're triggered, you see it as a monument to the west's superiority over you and a personal affront, so you have to twist and pervert "art" to compensate.
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>>6476957
>I find this more "interesting" than a flower, but that doesn't make it art, at least not art worthy of being constantly jerked off over and given colossal spiritual worldchanging significance.
If you want to look at a flower, fucking go outside and look at some flowers, they will be prettier than any realistic painting of a flower. Art isn't bound by real forms, it shouldn't have a duty to mimic them.
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>>6476962
>If you want to look at a flower, fucking go outside and look at some flowers, they will be prettier than any realistic painting of a flower. Art isn't bound by real forms, it shouldn't have a duty to mimic them.

Sure but art is fundamentally about communication. People exist in the real world, if you deviate to far from realism your work becomes unintelligible because people have no context by which to meaningfully interpret it.
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>>6476957
> worthy of being constantly jerked off over and given colossal spiritual world-changing significance
No picture is worthy of this shit. Maybe something like Faust or other literary masterpieces can come close, but painting even most beautiful one is just a painting in the end.
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>>6476957
What is even a point of being awe about sculpture when you can just see living athletes and their chiseled muscles in your gym?
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>>6470324
Who says it isn't good art? Or that art depends on the ability of reliably reproducing perception on canvas? I can find myself enjoying scribbles of people without any formal artistic education just fine. The rythm and singing of people without formal musical education. The writing of people without formal literary education. As long as it helps the maker express himself, I will never say a bad word about someone's work. After all, on what account would I and why would I even want that? It isn't like making art requires justification, particularly not justification by correspondence to whichever aesthetic standards you use to determine the worthiness of production and enjoyment. It is important to me to defenestrate the elitism which makes man into a mere consument of art. If man's expression is to be free, prejudices of convention of art must first be massacred.
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>>6465933

What is lost in most of the modern art in my opinion is the appreciation of proportion. It is grotesque by design. It's discords aimed at it's conception to be counter culture, that however is no longer the case as it is now part of the establishment. It creates a background of unease for it's viewers and is simultaneously being praised as deep and thoughtful. It is a petty child's revenge left to take hold.

You are wrong OP, solely on the bases of your notions you are somehow deep appreciating the shallows.
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>>6475941
a pretty picture of a flower tbqh. non representational paintings just comes off as incomplete. designwise the elements (value range, color etc) are there but could never match the beauty of a masterfully executed classical painting. I dont dislike contemporary art just that it hits an aesthetic ceiling and falls short on the glory of what its trying to break away from
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>>6465933
modern art is trash because it's about making some shitty faggot political message instead of creating beauty and dedicating it to something or someone.
>>
Anyone know where I can learn about modern art online that isn't random youtubers talking about how it's the downfall of society?
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>>6465933
how did people get memed by this garbage so hard? i mean OP's pic is still decent, but it's clear where the drop of standards will inevitably lead
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>>6465933
money laundering scheme
>>
Beauty is objective. Prove me wrong
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>>6466042
>only the opinion of people who like it should be considered
well now that's convenient
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>>6466092
toilet in museum was modern art, this garbage has been going on for over 100 years
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>>6476957
>worthy of being constantly jerked off over and given colossal spiritual worldchanging significance.
Nothing is or ever will be worthy of that.
>Your whole fawning attitude over it obviously isn't due to genuine appreciation of art. It is probably part and parcel of the left's hate of the west, when you see exquisite sculptures and awe inspiring cathedrals you can't just admire it the way you might admire pagodas or the taj mahal, you're triggered, you see it as a monument to the west's superiority over you and a personal affront, so you have to twist and pervert "art" to compensate.
ZzZzZzZzZz...
I actually find pagodas and the taj Mahal really dull as well. So that's my story? Hatered of Art and Beauty due to my Judaic self-loathing as the result of my physical incapability in front of the Aryan Man (which ought to be blatant even if I'm neither a jew nor physically deficient in any way)?
>>
>>6477158
>nor physically deficient in any way
well you are browsing and imageboard
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>>6477176
That makes me a mental and emotional cripple, not a physically cripple.
Nice one, though.
>>
>>6477130
Just go see it for yourself, preferably the free or cheap displays near you. Just avoid the annoying fanbase and focus on the specific artists that you like.
Consider it like /u/ anime.
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>>6477099
>non representational paintings
Truly non representational paintings are the almost the only thing of worth in recent painting though. Thinking of painters like zao wou ki or vasarelly. My gripe is people having some middle of the road faggotry painting a hill or a man but effortlessly and simplified until it looks like a globo-corporation logo.
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>>6465933
Everything is art, nothing is art. It became a useless word, what people care for is craftsmanship and modern art just doesn't deliver.
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>>6466064
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>>6477558
imagine being this memed, how do you even bring someone back from this?
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>>6477599
I wish this position was widespread enough to be a meme.
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>>6476957
Why do you think I'm leftist just for appreciating modern art?
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>>6477652
because all modern art is based in no standards, which is a leftist position
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>>6475941
>Any of these "talentless modern artists" could easily paint a realistic scene of a person or a building.
That might have been the case 50 years ago. It certainly isn't the case now. Most "art colleges" don't even teach life drawing anymore. And that's people's major gripe with modern art - when art can be anything, it becomes nothing over time.
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>>6478040
the "realistic painting" meme is also retarded, realism was only one aspect of painting, heck, even modern photos add weird filters to make photos look more like paintings because nobody cares about realism that much

just because you partially drop realism doesn't mean you have to drop all other standards like modern art does
>>
This whole thread is why modern art is a thing.

Can a thing be a thing? How do you "thing" a thing? Making things Happen. It's an art.
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>>6477142
Art isn't about beauty. Other emotions also have a right to be expressed artistically.
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>>6478062
it's just shitposting irl
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>>6475004
aye aye captain
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>>6478111
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>>6478114
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>>6478119
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>>6478128
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>>6478131
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>>6466016
>To be fair, you have to have a really high iq to understand modern art...
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>>6475951
All i see is a man getting fucked by a dog from behind
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>>6478169
based and dogpilled
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>>6478131
lol imagine falling for this
>>
ITT fags who have never been to a museum ever and only know art from 1800p x 780p images on their computer screen

armchair(gaming chair) art critics..
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>>6478953
stop putting toilets in museums and people may start going again
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>>6465933
Looks ugly.
You're a fart-sniffing moron.
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>>6465940
That picture is very clearly Toddler art though. "Modernist" artists, whatever the fuck that term encompasses, have solid foundations in painting fundamentals. Things like brush strokes, blending, layers/texture of the paint are all things that are utilized heavily in Pollock-esque paintings. People like this person are just not informed enough to notice it. Regardless of what you think about the emotional connection to "modern" art, there is very clear technique that goes into them that people unironically are too dumb to notice.
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>>6477652
To be fair, you are. You may not consider yourself one but you lean heavily left on most issues.
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>>6478114
I've no idea why, but I really, really like this one.
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>>6465933
This type of modern art is good! But having a tower of sponges!!!!!!!
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>>6479112
>too dumb

If it has aesthetics that are artificial... it doesn’t need understanding
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>>6478072
>>6478111
>>6478114
>>6478119
>>6478136
These are really nice and I like them
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>>6478131
Trash
>>6478136
Dope!
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>>6478072
Ughh gave me an itchy skin, but I like it!!!
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>>6479078
The toilet in the art museum literally was put by the artist there so he can show his opinions on the modern art bubble
Does this really need high IQ to be understood
you think it's shit, that's literally the point, the artist wants you to tell modern art academia and entrepreneurs who would buy shit like >>6466192 , you think the artist gave a shit doing this blue piece of shit?
fuck no he was a famous artist and needed money, so he made up some quick bullshit because his whore cash was running low, and the retards ate it up, paid in the thousands for it
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>>6479177
>artificial aesthetics
What kind of a meme phrase is this? Is this the new dishonest cinematography? If you didn't try to phrase your tastes as some metric of value to the overall culture and just said something like
>my subjective experience of many of these pieces is dulled at best and muted at worst because I feel their expression of ideas is lost in their desire to subvert conventions
Then that's a legitimate fucking argument that I can't easily refute. Instead you chose the low-brow path.

Regardless of all of that you missed my point entirely. The TL;DR of my previous post is that actual deliberate artistic talent goes into something that appears to be splattered paint. That is a factual statement and not an opinion of the work nor an endorsement of its artistic value.
>>
>>6479198
>my fanfic about this piece of art is a suitable argument
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>>6466058
>yes. children participate in art. hell, a child's work is amazingly interesting until it gets butchered in kindergarten by "well-meaning" teachers showing them what is worthy of being drawn and how it ought to be drawn.
Die kike.
>>
>>6465933
art takes skill, no one is born with it

that's a myth pushed by people who never tried to get good, just accepted they suck and stopped

this whole age of 'paint how you feel' is just throwing out thousands of years of knowledge because you can't be bothered to at least try and learn.
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>>6465933
Modern art looks like shit because it's a bunch of squares and rectangles.
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>>6479249
>what is dadaism
>what is the fountain by duchamp
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>>6476962
>Art isn't bound by real forms, it shouldn't have a duty to mimic them.
Correct.
It has a duty to improve upon them.
Craft is mimicking the flower.
Art is craft that goes beyond mimicry, and succeeds in creating something more desirable than the inspiration.
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>>6477045
>I prefer to fuck ugly chicks.
k.
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>>6479287
I was referring to your fanfic about >>6466192 not about the fountain of duchamp.
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>>6479321
>Art is craft that goes beyond mimicry, and succeeds in creating something more desirable than the inspiration.
Why do people just make up definitions in pseudophilosophical debates about culture and religion?
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>>6478072
the artist sat down and spent time *trying* to produce that painting of yours, used old techniques that were learned and passed down centuries before him, lighting, shading, and so on, it might evoke emotion from you, that's cool, but everythings still the same

the art of 'painting emotion' is this abstract garbage taking root where they don't even try, its just a collage of shit blood and whatever else they just smear. literally.

but I guess there is a distinction between modern and abstract
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>>6477558
I'm genuinely impressed by the work of this zao wou ki guy.

He paints things that are not things.
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>>6479351
Why shouldn't they?
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>>6479356
http://library1.org/_ads/04D53435CB66454F0B7064A04D7B7C54

heres some valuable material for anyone to read and learn a thing or two about art, the get link is to pdf of 'alla prima 2'
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>>6479198
Your reply and art as it evolved really makes me appreciate The Golden Age of Grotesque - perpetual rebellion with absolutely no cause. This can be seen with the history of any "ism" rising due to a rebellion against the established art, but for what cause?
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>>6479369
Because if they choose to disregard any previously established definitions or conventions then the foundation of communication is gone. 4chan overuses the word a lot but >>6479321 is literally meaningless.
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>>6479402
How does that definition disregard previously established definitions and conventions regarding art?
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>>6475941
No, to replicate a reality through your hands is the heights of art
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>>6479413
and no master is ever pleased with his work, there is always something that could have been done better/improved
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>>6479375
why would someone rebel against established art?

for one example I can think of, the theory of light progressed by painters was heavily fought against by other artists of their day, the Hollywood of the old world said no, status quo was how they made their living, they didn't want these Rembrandts ruining their trade

this whole abstract art thing is a travesty
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>>6469497
All art looks better in person brainlet
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>>6479407
Because that anon just invented it to suit his argument. Don't be thick.
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>>6479524
Just because you claim the anon invented it does not mean it disregards previously established definitions and conventions regarding art. Unless you can point out any specific ways in which it does this, all you're doing is making hot air.
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>>6468786
>why is modern art so despicable?
Because you're literally too stupid to appreciate it.

This whole thread is full of people who think Norman Rockwell is the greatest American artist.
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>>6479279
art does not take skill, please stop pushing this idea that something must be past a certain point of quality to be something else, if you don't like a piece of music it doesn't mean it's not music
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>>6479748
That's wrong and also stupid
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>>6479748
it takes skill to produce something of quality*
it takes practice to get better*

is that a better way of putting it?
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>>6479581
Norman Rockwell did nothing wrong kike.
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>>6479748
>art does not take skill
Fuck off.
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>>6479198
good for him for making the point that art was garbage, but then it should carry the same prestige as garbage, you can't have it both ways

and there's been no progress, it's been a 100 years of toilets and dildos in museums, nothing else
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>>6479581
>capitalism/patriarchy/racism bad, traditional forms of art informed by the aforementioned
Not too hard to understand.
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>>6479287
duchamp was garbage, yes, he was clever and self-conscious about being garbage, but that doesn't make it any less garbage
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>>6479748
>art does not take skill
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>>6479843
the current definition of art doesn't, it only takes money laundering skills
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>>6479808
>>6479843

It doesn't, see the last sentence before getting emotional.
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>>6465933
It's the elitism of the arts within the 20th century that lead to this.
While most art beforehand was there to awe or overwhelm the public, now art has become something completely intellectual. While old paintings had this kind of coding in them before (a hand on x symbolizes this), now understanding art was mainly only for those who could crack the code or 'pretend they had cracked the code' thus making art mainly intelligable for the main public as now, it requires an art degree to understand.

AND IT'S FINE WITH THAT
Every other piece is usually said to be amazing because it affects every audience on some level but not arts. Modern Arts is now only for those to enjoy who have read everything about it.

The more this trend seperates itself from the public the more it needs the intellectual way of separation which then leads to abstruse situations where the paintings of monkeys get the same applause as the original painters, because admitting to lying is worse than continuing lying because that's what your entire career has been based on in order to make rich people richer.

This is professionalization and also commodification at its worst.
>>
>>6479581
My god, I hate Norman Rockwell pieces. They are just another part of Americans struggling to artificially create culture and pretending to be European with fine art.
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>>6479898
And what's your country? I will gladly tear your pathetic """""""natural"""""""culture apart for all to see.
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>>6479581
>the faeces, splodges and rectangles posted here are great candidates for America's greatest artist
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>>6479843
The only measure of art is whether or not it conveys an idea.
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>>6479889
>completely intellectual
except it's intellectually empty, it's just commodified prestige tokens, and if there's any art it's all in the literature written around justifying the pieces, not in the pieces or artists themselves
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>>6479581
just because america has no culture doesn't make literal garbage culture
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>>6479920
I'm a fucking American myself. American culture isn't Boy Scouts, weekend grills, and drinking soda in a chrome plated cafe, instead it's Appalachian folk-songs and moonshine and African-American jazz. As far as American high culture goes Broadway might meet the standard.
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>>6479954
everything conveys something, i'm fine with the "everything is art" meme as long as we carry it to the ultimate consequences, which would be that art and artist should carry no more prestige than literally anything else.

but no, they want to be the edgy "everything is art" while still retaining the prestige without requiring any of the skill required for previous art
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>>6479984
Then what in your little nigger-loving brain makes you think you get to decide what our culture is?
>>
any chances that the definition of art breaks into different competing visions now that the mainstream has no longer any hold on defining cultural standards?

i mean right wing artists have been too cringy for too long, but they could get something done in a few decades if they start working on it
>>
>>6479998
Culture is practiced rituals and traditions of a group of people, unlike Norman Rockwell's paintings which attempt to pass off an idealized daily life as high culture. High culture, in my books, is old European court life and Classical music.
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>>6480038
In your books.
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>>6479581
I like N.C Wyeth for his very pretty illustrations
But I am uncultured at the end of the day
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>>6480038
Norman Rockwell seems to want to define America as the Middle Class East-Coast picket fence America.

Not exactly high culture 2bh.

If anything he can be accused of trying to ignore the diversity of American cultures found within the US.
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>>6480111
The lack of diversity doesn't perturb me seeing as how people can surround themselves in very insulated backgrounds and still create valuable works. Rather, it's his attempt to separate from well understood ideas of American culture such as an all encompassing civic religion or the theater and fashion of "the Roaring 20's" and the related prohibition. He's a charlatan and perhaps even a propagandist.
>>
>>6479360
dont be. its just applied color theory and elements of design + fancy brushes finished off with a le deep title
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>>6478072
The seek of Beauty is the peak of art
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>>6480111
look at this absolutely disgusting propaganda
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>>6480326
yikes what a stomach churning piece
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>>6480335
AY TONE HE SAID THE N- WORD

I THINK HE JUST FUCK'N WITH US NOW
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>>6480326
This but unironically
that painting sucks
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>>6480363
is whitey makin fun of the civil rights movement? how dare he as rich cis white man.
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When I was going to college, few years ago, during art class I don't remember how, everyone started arguing about modern art like in this thread, after a while the professor interrupted us all saying that there is nothing intrinsically wrong with modernism, but the oversaturation of the style (like in the 1600 and 1700 with baroque art) has exausted the medium, and after a while, like in the case of baroque the art scene will become so saturated with this style that a change in course is only a question of time and endurance by the art elite and populance alike
>>
>>6480326
>>6480335
>>6480363
>>6480388
empty pretty pictures m8. its all about high iq emoshunal expression
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>>6479867
>if you don't like a piece of music it doesn't mean it's not music
Wrong.
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>>6479984
>I'm a fucking American myself.
Every fucking time.
It's always a self-loathing American leftist.
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>>6480392
That, and the eventual destruction of the more hated pieces will serve as natural selection.
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>>6471283
ah yes
the (((swedes)))
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>>6480258
Why does application of color theory and design make it bad? Are you implying that good art does not utilize color theory and design principles?
>>
>>6465933
>New money laundering better than old money laundering
>checkmate incels
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>>6479546
>you have to prove I'm misusing a word
And we're done here, sweetheart.
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>>6480560
>you have to prove I'm misusing a word
Is this ironic?
Yes faggot, you made a claim now back it up.
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>>6480462
thats not what i said at all lmao.
>>
Art is a tool used by the elite to simulate the feeling of learning, but without teaching you anything useful that might be used to, or cause, rebellion.
>>
>>6480604
>https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/art
It's very clear you were just using pseud-madlibbing.
>>
>>6480664
Yes, very nice hyperlink.
Now how about you actually state your case?
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>>6480681
I did >>6479402

Your pseud-speak is not in that link. You're just shitposting because someone called you out.
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>>6478072
>Art isn't about beauty
the best art is
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>>6465933
Art is something, that is supposed to invoke thoughts or feelings, a physical form of philosophy. Art is not something that is ment to please the eye, it is not primarily a decoration.

Asking a sculpturer to sculpt a statue of roman emperor might be astonishing craftmanship, but it isn't art. Just like a ordering mass produced plastic statue from china. It is merely a decoration.

I do not mean there can't be bad art, there is. But "bad art" is no less art than good art.
>>
>>6480755
The post-modernism in me disagrees. In the age of capitalism, the plastic faked anime figurine you bought on Aliexpress is still as much of a piece of art as any other. It's artistic angle comes from the work and imagination that was put into the multitudes of factories, oil drills and the sterile handiwork of the barely paid assembly line worker. It may be pop art (and bad art beyond that), designed for the masses and capitalistic through and through, but it is still art.
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>>6480896
Let me add to this and add my definition of art;
Art is identified by the simultaneous effort and creative ingenuity of human talent and is unique to both the individual and to the human species.
The toilet is art, and the yellow #2 pencil in an economists hand is art.
>>
>>6480755
Brutalist architecture inspires a feeling of disgust and disappointment, so I guess it’s art now?
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>>6480687
>Your pseud-speak is not in that link
Either show how my "pseud-speak" contradicts what's in that link or fuck off sperg.
>>
>6481000
(You) play too loose with your bait.
>>
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Some modern art is okay but what I really hate is the tendency for egotistical modern artists/architects to put their work on display as a big "fuck you" to the artistic traditions that came before them.
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>>6481311
Exhibit A
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>>6481322
Coming to an ancient cathedral near you...
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>>6481327
I should hate this but I don't
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>>6481481
That's because you r a fag
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>>6481311
God, “der Dom” is so fucking stupid looking. It actually puts me in an annoyed mood looking at it. Someone needs to put the original dome back and add the ornaments on the top corners as well. Paint it white again too. And for the love of god landscape that shit. It needs a fountain and a plaza in front not just an ugly trampled over field. Actually on second thought just leave the thing and move the government back into the newly reconstructed Berlin palace. There is hardly a more out of place looking building than where the Reichstag stands today. It wouldn’t even be so bad if they had adequately developed around it.
>>
>>6480038
>watching the King wake up and put on clothes is "High Culture"
>Peasants yodeling like their ancestors did for centuries and wearing clothing that was made for their traditional line of work is "lowly daily life"
absolute state of Europe
>>
>>6479898
>They are just another part of Americans struggling to artificially create culture and pretending to be European with fine art.
Meanwhile, Europeans building "Roman Temple but it's not Roman guys I swear" is not at all artificial LARPing
>>
>>6479116
Lmao no. I'm mega-libertarian
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>>6481534
The dome makes sense to me, the addition could symbolize a new (unified) Germany. It's in pictures like >>6481327 that the new feels like an attack on the old.
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>>6481311
Someone said it elsewhere but architects design buildings to impress other architects, that's why we suffer these hideous eyesores
>>
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>>6466192
>>6475173
>>6479198
>>6479337
For what it's worth, I saw this in New York years ago.

It's way bigger in person. And it's blue. It's really really fucking blue. It's the bluest fucking thing I've ever seen.

Dead serious, I spent like five minutes staring at this piece, just fucking loving it. I've seen a million realist paintings of fruit, ships, people, etc.

I never saw anything like this.
>>
>>6481311
This looks beautiful, is this a meme?
>>
>>6479112
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2011/03/14/a-child-couldnt-paint-that-can-people-tell-abstract-art-from-a-childs-or-chimps-work/

>Throughout the experiments, the students typically picked the professional pieces between 60% and 70% of the time.
so even if you pry it apart meticulously with fine tweezers, 30% to 40% of the time a toddler produces "higher quality" """art"""

philistines BTFO!!!
>>
>>6465936
Based
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>>6480462
it's just keeping some classic painting standards while dropping some other standards, nothing groundbreaking and the same gimmick everybody has been playing for over 100 years
>>
>>6481322
What the fuck. This looks like textures glitching.
>>
how do we solve the problem of old art with too much meaning? is fire the answer?
>>
>>6480392
this presupposes some sort of unified society with a shared definition of art will remain, which is a big assumption
>>
>>6480755
My feces are art. They invoke a feeling of disgust
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>>6480632
imagine unironically believing that rebellions are anything more than getting memed by a new elite
>>
>>6480755
if art is nothing, then why should art keep being a prestigious thing? by your definition art is no higher than shitposting, and i do it for free
>>
>>6480926
>ingenuity
what did he mean by this?
>>
>>6480926
if the toilet is art, why keep the link between art and prestige?
>>
>>6481322
>>6481327
Jewish art.
>>
>>6480755
my neighbor dragging his chair annoys me, i guess that's art now
>>
Lmao modern art is a scam used by billionaires to trade pieces of "art" all valued at different amounts.

This is done in order to avoid taxes, hide the flow of money, convert currencies, and to safely store money outside of banks.

Some "art" huh?
>>
>>6481311
yes, at least you don't have to go into a museum, and "experimental" music is even more of a failure because nobody will sit through that.

but modern architecture is truly a crime against humanity and pure evil
>>
>>6481534
>Paint it white again too.
problematic
>>
>>6482191
Why people are so mad about the toilet? A fancy one is a piece of art, not even worse than any other artistic furniture.
>>
>>6481763
>could symbolize
if you have to explain it, it makes no sense, specially in the case of architecture where people are not just intentionally going to see it
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>>6482031
nothing strange about a big blue thing being pleasant to the eye if you are not used to seeing big blue things, still not art
>>
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>>6482057
based
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>>6479581

>Why don't people like le colorful shapes with no intended meaning beyond "It what ever you want to see XD"
>These people are so dumb and uncultured LOL

Day of the rope is coming, coastie
>>
>>6482197
> "experimental" music is even more of a failure
Imagine hating that
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHQM2-MMXzY
>>
>>6482201
this isn't about fancy toilets now, come on, it's about the act of putting a regular toilet in a museum or a bunch of dildos being art

i'm not against that kind of garbage, i'm against artists trying to make this point but wanting to keep the prestige attached to art at the same time, you can't have it both ways
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>>6482213
The real question is why people hate le colorful shapes.
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>>6482242
nobody hates colorful shapes, people hate the pretension of it being anything beyond colorful shapes
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>>6482291
Kind of hypocritical if they pretend that other art is beyond what was on the canvas.
>>
>>6482300
it literally is
>>
>>6482217
[opens link with open mind]
*thum PLinK pLoNk pLING dUhm duHm*
Oh god here we go....
>>
>>6482217
why does this garbage all have exactly the same shitty mood? if they were so experimental why the inability to create any different atmosphere with their music?
>>
>>6482031
>A BLUE WALL WOOOOWWWWW
A huge painting of realist artwork would be a thousand times more interesting to look at, but that requires actual effort.
>>
I only like history art or art depicting events, people and the like.
Colorful shapes and squiggly lines are only colorful shapes and squiggly lines.
>>
>>6482450
based. why is he yanking the dead guy's beard?
>>
Someone's opinion on modern art is helpful when finding out whether they are smart or retarded, make of that what you will
>>
>>6482476
It's Charles IX making sure his passed rival Klaus Fleming has truly died after seizing Turku castle in 1597 civil war of sweden.
>>
>>6482031
Now imagine that beautiful colour was taken and used as part of an actual piece of art.
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>>6482497
but dude, blue
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>>6482423
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71hNl_skTZQ
They actually use different moods.
>>
>>6482481
If one says modern art is categorically good, bad, something or other, they're pretty stupid yeah.
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>>6482513
>defensive intellectualism
this is the ultimate brainlet stance
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>>6482505
and failed at it
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>>6482524
Don't make up words, dumb dumb.
It is the stance of recognizing that every medium through which people can express themselves creatively consists mostly pretentious, forgettable and pure bad and those nuggets of golden genious are rare but they're there.
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>>6481322
>>6481327
Damn, nice. Syncretic building are really cool.
>>
>>6482535
>and pure bad and those nuggets of golden genious are rare but they're there.
this is just an empty assumption to be safe. there's plenty of places where there's only garbage, you only add that "nuggets of golden genious" shit so that you can feel like you are saying something while saying nothing and trying to protect yourself from being attacked
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>>6482545
Please never build anything.
>>
based and bump limit reached
>>
Modern art makes me cry



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