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/his/ - History & Humanities

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1/2Often it is asked--no, rather it is stated that Islam is antithetical to western civilization. This is a statement of tremendous gravity, for if it is true then Islam and the west are necessarily mortal enemies until the day one or the other perishes.

So we should begin by qualifying the question. What is meant by "western civilization"? If it is pic related, then yes, Islam is antithetical to it. If it is gambling, interest, secularism, materialism, pornography, alcoholism, or anything fundamentally haram, then yes, Islam is antithetical to it. But I believe these are not western civilization, I believe they are simply viruses western civilization has become afflicted with and now propagates.

To look at the foundation of western civilization, what defines it, we must examine its point of origin, antiquity. The Greeks. Now there are two principles to what made the Greeks the Greeks: their art and philosophy (also mathematics, but I leave that alone as it could be replicated by many peoples with sufficient study). There is no little overlap here, but I will start with Greek poetry and drama, which is supposedly the heart of western civilization, yet totally antithetical to Islam. Is it really more "foreign" to Islam than to the west? I don't think so, not if by the west we mean slave morality.
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2/2The Qur'an holds it as halal to take enslaved captives as concubines, (although such concubines have some rights in Islam), to wage war, to collect tribute. While most Muslims do not support or participate in such practices, they are not considered evil, but if done they must be done according to Shariah. Slave morality could never really understand the values of Homeric heroes, we can tell this because a common slave morality criticism of Muhammed is that he was a "warlord", as if being in the vein of Nobunaga and Agamemnon is to be despised rather than admired. I note here that Nietzsche praises Islam unstintingly in The Antichrist. Evola also praises Islam, especially Tawhid, and says it is noteworthy that Muhammed and his followers were warriors rather than priests or ascetics.

Moving to Greek philosophy, I will look at the two most enduring reprrsentatives, Plato and Artistotle. In both of their philosiphy, Tawhid has far surer foundation than the Trinity. The Trinity can only be articulated as three specimens of one category (Tritheism), or a blatant violation of term logic. Neither Plato nor Aristotle would accept Tritheism, and certainly they would not accept a violation of term logic. However the names of Allah, His attributes, fits in neatly with Plato's theory of forms, perhaps even better than Augustine's theology.

Any questions?
I made the OP too long, didn't I?
its fine like that, me and the lads are gonna have a good laugh with it
>God is found through reason
the absolute ignorance of the philosophers!
God can be proved/determined through reason, not exactly the same as "finding" Him, which generally connotes revelation
I piss at "western civilisation", greeks and islam
my piss upon you all

This is a solid conventional argument. I think it's totally wrong.

Why should we take Western civilization as unchanged since the Greeks? I contend that the cult of freedom is the core of the West, in contrast with Islam/submission. Muhammed didn't free people, he conquered them. We can't tolerate that anymore, conquest and slavery are forboten.

The West is all about equality, diversity and freedom, in that order. The older generation remembers the 'rule of law' and go on about Judeo-Christian tradition. That's just a hollow facade. The West would place sanctions and impose regime change on Ancient Greece, home of slave-holders and misogyny.

Islam is only tolerated because it's diverse and because of colonial guilt. Once the oil runs out and we commit fully to moral imperialism, we'll see a true battle of civilizations.

You say that Islam is similiar to Ancient Greece, yet how similar are we to the origins of the West?
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>If it is gambling, interest, secularism, materialism, pornography, alcoholism, or anything fundamentally haram
the leaders of saudi arabia engage in all of these things
>Is it really more "foreign" to Islam than to the west?
Try asking a muslim if it's okay to appreciate or even preserve for the public a statue of Athena.

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