Were the Turks the last great martial race? I mean they migrated from Mongolia, defeated the Byzantines, displaced and conquered the natives in the region and settled in Asia Minor.
>>6298374There were still the mongols after them. But they were definitely one of the last.You could see them as one of the last barbarian peoples in a world that was civilizing.
>>6298383They didn't get conquered by anybody that was civilized. So they're not actually barbarians
Not for the first time, I wish I was Turkish.Too bad I am paki
>>6298590One of the main differences between Urdu and Hindi is apparently the presence of Turkish elements - whether eastern Turkish or western Turkish, I don't know.
>>6298609Yeah. And the mughals were Mongolian which is what the Turks were too. There are some ways to cope but we couldn't avoid colonialism but the Turks could. They were strong and we weren't.
>>6298627>>6298590Babur>I am Turki
>>6298675So you're saying I am Turkish after all?
>>6298683They are totally displaced in their own homeland, don't form a majority anywhere, and lost their language, culture, religion because they relied on other people to fight. Turks erased the native identity of Anatolia and still occupy Anatolia and Thrace today with their language, culture and identity still going.
>>6298609The difference is the presence of Persian elements and Persian grammar. Urdu does not have any Turk elements that Persian doesn't have. The Turk loanwords in Urdu came through Persian.
>>6298683This. They forced the biggest population in the world to shave their heads for centuries. Based.
>>6298696They also lost their names while Turks still use Turk names.
>>6298696Actually the "erased" Greek, Armenian and Aramaic speaking groups from Anatolia still retain culture distinct from the other branches of their ethnicities that they've been relocated onto.
>>6298704Turks forced men to be circumcised where ever they conquered and spread Islam. In the Balkans, Anatolia and the Indian subcontinent, hundreds of millions of foreskins were cut because of Turks.
>>6298712Armenians don't live in Anatolia, they used to live in the highlands in the east but not anymore. The Greek population of Turkey is 3,500 and the Armenian population of Turkey is 70,000. The Assyrian population of Turkey is 50,000. Turkey has 82 million people, around 60 million Turks and the rest are Kurds.
>>6298696The Han population in the Qing dynasty actually grew by over 300 million during Qing rule. The non-Turkish populations of the Ottoman empire shrank and suffered catastrophic population loss.
>>6298713Shame, Turks could've been the ones to invent face creams
>>6298704It’s easy mode subjugating soulless chinks.
>>6298731The Manchus were benevolent masters who fed their Chinese slaves well.
>>6298704The Arab Rashidun caliphate forced non-Muslim dhimmis all over the Middle East and North Africa to shave the hair of their foreheads off to distinguish them from Muslims after conquering those lands from Byzantines. It was an official rule for dhimmis particularly Christians.https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/source/pact-umar.asp>We shall clip the fronts of our heads.
>>6298752Manchus were under Ming chink rule before the Qing. Oghuz Turks were never under Byzantine rule or Arab rule.
>>6298723...and none of that contradicts what I said. The groups that were there still exist (if endangered) with distinctions from the members of their ethnicity less affected by the events and located oitside what's now Turkey.
>>6298774They lost their homelands. Turks are now in their lands. The Manchu homeland is filled with Han people.
>>6298752>>6298802Gods, not people. The Manchus translated Sun Tzu's Art of War and the Chinese novel Romance of the Three Kingdoms from Chinese into Manchu to read on military tactics. Manchu soldiers worshipped the Han Chinese general Guan Yu from the Three Kingdoms as their national war god in a cult sponsored by the Qing emperor with temples to him built in every garrison. They believed military victory came from praying and worshipping him.
>>6298704I always thought that the shaved pigtail hairdo in Kung Fu movies was so weird. Turns out it wasn't even Chinese at all. The Chinese were a conquered people during that era.
>>6298810The Qing gave a noble title to Guan Yu's descendants because Manchus worshipped their ancestor. The Qing also promoted the cult of the Song dynasty Han Chinese General Yue Fei among Manchu soldiers who prayed to him as another god of war in their temples. Yue Fei's military accomplishments were defeating and killing Jurchen armies which outnumbered him and Jurchens were ancestors of Manchus.
>>6298816Lu Xun said that the national character of the Chinese is slavishness. They adopted the custom of their masters.
>>6298834Lu Xun was a visionary.
>>6298829Yue Fei's direct descendant General Yue Zhongqi spearheaded the Qing conquest of Tibet and defeated the Oirats.
>>6298845>conquering in the name of the ManchusI think Lu Xun was onto something about Chinese being slavish.
>>629883499% of Manchus 1800 adopted the use of Han Chinese personal names and the Chinese language as their first language and totally abandoned Manchu names. Few could even speak Manchu.
>>6298854The Qing Emperors themselves from Shunzhi in 1644 onwards all had Han personal names : Xuanye, Hongli, Yongyan, Mianning, Puyi. Not a single one used Manchu names. Puyi could not even speak Manchu except for one word.
>>6298854Alas that is what happens when you are outnumbered 1,000:1. If there is one thing the Chinese are the best at, it is breeding.
>>6298863The name of the dynasty itself, Qing, is a Chinese word that means pure. It is not a Manchu word and has no meaning in Manchun
>>6298870Mongols and Tibetans in China still use their names and speak their languages. Tibetans don't use Han names like Jinliang unlike 99.9% of Manchus.
>>6298872The emperors of the dynasty itself, Qing, were the Manchu people.
>>6298870>Alas that is what happens when you are outnumbered 1,000:1. If there is one thing the Chinese are the best at, it is breeding.The Manchus were already Sinified even before unification as Manchus. They were Jurchens after all who lived in Northern China since the mid 1200s, and were a province under the Yuan-Ming Dynasties.
>>6298880Actually its just the Aisin-Gioro family. Sinified under the surname "Jin."
>>6298885Ah yes they were so sinified that they continued shaving their heads and wore different clothing. Oh wait.
>>6298870The use of Han Chinese names within the Manchu Aisin Gioro Imperial family was mandated on every single male Aisin Gioro Manchu imperial prince after Kangxi by Qing custom.
>>6298893Shame they didn't discontinue the practice of head shaving.
>>6298898By shame I mean from the perspective of the Chinese subjects of the Qing.
>>6298885>>6298886Those two posts are not mine. I'm >>6298878
You're cowardly as always.
>>6298888>"Ah yes they were so sinified that they continued shaving their heads and wore different clothing." XD>Literally posted a fucking painting of Dorgon in the Chinese style way before the foundation of the Qing.>Even had the 4 Clawed Dragon in the picture as the 5 Clawed Dragon is reserved only for the ruler of China. Which was at the time still the Ming Dynasty.Ah yes, they weren not sinified, but they were spouting Confucian piety and living in Chinese as fuck Palaces such as this one in Mukden/Shenyang way before their conquest for some reason, idk.
>>6298374Depends what you mean. There were small tribal countries like New Zealand where warfare was a constant part of life and your worth as a male was determined by your ability to fight. Rather broad and non specific question.
Why do people knock the Manchu Queue so much? It's based. Bless the Manchus.
6298906 (you)You're a coward and a moron, his posting style is not mine, I never use the word Sinified and if you look in the archive I repeatedly said Genghis killed most sinicized Jurchens in northern China leaving only the Jurchens in Manchuria alive. His claim is literally the antithesis of what I say. There were 8,000,000 Jurchens before Genghis in 1211 and only 100,000 in 1600 as I always said Genghis killed millions of them you idiot? I always make sure to mention repeatedly the Jurchens were under the Ming dynasty Nurgan regional military COMMISSION and Jianzhou Jurchen GUARD, not province. I never made the mistake of calling their land a province of the Ming.
I always said the Jin dynasty had 3 million Jurchens when invading the northern Song in 1125.The Jin dynasty, with it's 3 million strong Jurchen population in 1125 attempted to issue and order for Han people in northern China to shave the front if their heads and wear the queue and enforce Jurchen dress wearing. This first queue order was a massive failure, provoked massive resistance and fighting and the Jin were forced to withdraw the entire queue order, shaving and mandatory Jurchen dress with Jurchen soldiers forcing it.The Jin had Han soldiers from the Han population of the Liao and some defectors from the Song which they put into their Mengan Mouke units but they had far less Han defectoes proportionally than the Qing had. The Jin put Jurchen troops and princes on the front line of the battle and attempted to invade southern China by land and sea but were defeated and repulsed by southern Han Chinese. They attemped brute force throwing Jurchen cavalry lead by Princes at the southern Song and having a Jurchen Prince lead a naval attack.The Qing only had 100,000 Jurchen/Manchus, always put Manchus in the rear guard of battles, sent Han Generals and troops to conquer southern China and the Qing navy which attacked the south was entirely Han. They sent Han soldiers to carry out the queue order.
>>6298893By contrast, only one Yuan Mongol Crown Prince, Zhenjin had a Han Chinese personal name since he was named by a Han Chinese who was close to his father Kublai Khan. The others used Mongol personal names. All Yuan Emperors and princes were bilingual in Chinese and Mongol. This is unlike the Qing Aisin Gioro which mass adopted Han Chinese names and some Qing emperor and princes were monolingual in Chinesen
>>6298374Turco-Mongols in general were the last warrior race. Just until Mughal Empire's end they were still warring and conquering. Displacing entire populations and settling on it instead
>>6298696Manchus are legit autists. Gets COMPLETELY assimilated into Han Chinks. Nowadays the half mutt "Manchus" proudly consider themselves Chinese kek. Not only did they destroy themselves but also destroyed the Mongols, by letting tens of millions of Chinks migrate into Inner Mongolia and Manchuria
>>6298885Using Mongol writing system and half their language is Mongol-Turk loanwords, yes very Sinicized
>>6299008>The Jin dynasty, with it's 3 million strong Jurchen population in 1125 attempted to issue and order for Han people in northern China to shave the front if their heads and wear the queue and enforce Jurchen dress wearing. This first queue order was a massive failure, provoked massive resistance and fighting and the Jin were forced to withdraw the entire queue order, shaving and mandatory Jurchen dress with Jurchen soldiers forcing it.Should beThe Jin dynasty, with it's 3 million strong Jurchen population in 1125 attempted to issue an order for Han people in northern China to shave the front of their heads and wear the queue and enforce Jurchen dress wearing with Jurchen soldiers enforcing the queue order. This first queue order was a massive failure, provoked massive resistance and fighting and the Jin were forced to withdraw the entire queue order, shaving and mandatory Jurchen dress. Han Chinese did not shave or wear the queue in the Jin Jurchen dynasty while the 3 million Jurchens in 1125 did, later 8,000,000 Jurchens in 1211.
>>6299062>and half their language is Mongol-Turk loanwordsNot him, but half Mongol-Turk is bullshit. Most of their core vocabulary is native Tungusic Manchu with various Mongol and Chinese loanwords.
>>6299064Very interesting. Were they polygamous? Did they have damaged DNA?
>>6298696Modern Turks don't have any genetic continuity with their Oriental ancestors though.
>>6298374real Turks are fat, lazy fucks who eat plov and drink russian piss alcoholt. central asian
>>6298696>there are still Slavs in the Balkans and Greek and Armenian speakers in Anatolia >the average “Turk” today is unrelated to the average Mongolian and instead shares his heritage with the Greeks his ancestors conquered
Can anyone tell me about Turkish - Chinese Hui Muslim interactions?
americans were the last martial race. they subjugated an entire continent
>>6299149There are tons of boxers and just militant persons around.t. Another central asian
>>6301194Red Indians were hardly worthy enemies. If anything the Spanish have a bigger claim to being a martial race since so few of them conquered the Aztecs.
>>6301706Did they conquer by might and strength?As far as I know they used cunning and politics.They were good politicians. Not warriors
>>6298374No, that would be the Boer, whose descendants would still be in control of South Africa today had not every major world power ganged up on them.
>>6301227Uzbeks have a LOT to answer for after their hapa-supremacist apartheid!
>>6298683>>6298704The Manchu Khan Nurhaci started his first military campaign against Ming China to capture a city.... by offering the commander Ming Han Chinese officer, Major Li Yongfang, his own granddaughter as a concubine and a permanent hereditary noble title in the Later Jin (Qing) dynasty if Li Yongfang defected to Nurhaci and handed Fushun over when the siege started in 1618. Major Li Yongfang immediately defected and was given Nurhaci's granddaughter as a concubine, promoted to general and his descendants became hereditary nobles. Fushun was the first Ming city to fall. Nurhaci also promised and gave Li Yongfang's Han soldiers wives, slaves, villages and houses. Fushun was a minor and small frontier town and Nurhaci had to give his own granddaughter away for his first capture of a city..The Turks under Seljuk Sultan Tughril Bey used only Turk cavalry to storm Baghdad in 1055, and forced the Arab Abbasid Caliiph Al-Qa'im to give Al-Qai'm's Arab daughter to the Turk Sultan Tughril Bey as a wife by military force.I know which sounds based and martial to you, the one offering his own granddaughter, bribes,rewards and slaves to win a city like a cuckold. Not the one who stormed one of the biggest fortified cities in the world and forced the caliph of the Ummah to give him his daughter.And holding the title of Khan and claiming to be from a lineage of divine birth, and giving your granddaughter to an enemy low ranking major (officer) of humble background to win a puny backwater frontier town with one of the smallest populations. Instead of being able to actually capture the city by military force or siege. That sounds really martial, powerful and based.Turks never gave a single Turk princess to an Arab prince or sultan. No Arab became damat (son in law) of a Turk Sultan. Plenty of Han officers became efu (son in law) to the Qing Emperors and Qing princes after being given Manchu princesses as concubines.
>>6298683They were only good at raping Chinese and Koreans. OTOH the Manchus got raped hard by the Burmese and Vietnamese.
>>6302690>Plenty of Han officers became efu (son in law) to the Qing Emperors and Qing princes after being given Manchu princesses as concubines.Were they afraid of their fathers?
>>6302868Not a single Manchu ever fought in Vietnam. The only Southeast Asians to fight Manchu soldiers were Burmese. The Qing sent a 20,000 Muslim led Green Standard Army force led by Xu Shouhui, a Muslim General in alliance with 20,000 Le loyist Vietnamese to fight in Vietnam against a Vietnamese Tay Son army of 100,000. Vietnamese never saw a single Manchu in action.
>>6302890Sounds like the Manchus were afraid of the Vietnamese Warrior.
Did the Manchus make the Tibetans shave their heads like they made the Chinese shave their heads?
>>6302929>>6302943Qing got BTFO so hard by Vietnam they never tried again. Sounds like PTSD kinda like children abused by their fathers.
>>6302944I know that all Uighur men shaved all their heads bald as a custom during Qing rule so there was no hair left to shave. Salar Turk men also shaved all their hair and left nothing. Whenever a Uighur or Salar wanted to blend in with Han and Hui they had to make a wig and create a fake queue to put on their clean shaven heads.
>>6302954>Someone mentions child abuse.>Someone brings up something WAY too specific not to be his own personal experiences.Dude I bet that was cathartic for you. Yikes.
>>6302993Don't know why I replied to that post. Was meant for >>6302985
>>6302900The Qing sent a 20,000 provincial gendarmie force (Green Standard Army) and not even Han bannermen to Vietnam because they thought Vietnam was insignificant and they weren't gaining any land from the campaign. The Qing were only restoring the Le emperor to rule Tonkin and even sent leaflets around asking for any Vietnamese warlord who was willing to back him up would be made ruler of Tonkin with the Le emperor as his puppet and the Qing would leave after it was done. The Qing only intervened once in Vietnam in one year. The Qing Green Standard Army ebenbeat the Vietnamese Tay Son in Lang Son. The Vietnamese Tay Son only won the final battle by having their 100,000 Vietnamese soldiers surprise attack the 20,000 Qing Green Standard Army soldiers and 20,000 Vietnamese Le loyalist soldiers when the Qing Green Standard Army soldiers were busy celebrating the New Year which they thought the Vietnamese Tay Son would also celebrate.In Myanmar, the Qing wanted to annex Myanmar's entire Shan state to the Qing Yunnan province after some Shan lords requested the Qing to take over. They were gaining land. The Qing invaded Myanmar four different times in Shan state for four years. They sent 60,000 Manchus directly into Myanmar along with the Green Standard Army.
>>6298374>I mean they migrated from Mongolia
>>6299121 #They do, however they are quite mixed they are still Turkic. Most Turks look like mixed with Asian traits. Turkic people were never completely mongoloid as well they always mixed with local people.
>>6303134They literally don’t. They look like Armenians/Iranians/Arabs.
>>6303093there were several turkish groups that lived in mongolia actually
>>6303151 #Most Turks I saw you could see some Asian in them. There are like millions of kurds in Turkey I think those cause confusion about Turks.
>>6298374Turks are unironcially wop-tier soldiers>BTFOd by chinks, of all people, multiple times>served as slaves to arabs for centuries>won at Manzikert only thanks to western desertion and byzantine infighting and subsequent civil war, still couldn't hold most of their gains in the long run>failed to besiege constantinople once and almost failed the second time despite the city being already dead>worked its way through the balkans by fighting smaller scattered armies>collectioned hundreds of comical massive failures like Calugareni, 1st Rhodes, Torvioll, Lepanto, Malta, 1st and 2nd Vienna and many more>BTFOd from Russia a hundred times
>>6304669The Turks who were Mamluk warrior slaves were Qarluq and the Kipchak Turks were Mamluk slaves to Kurds and Oghuz Turks, not Arabs. The Oghuz Turks who conquered the Arabs and formed the biggest empires were never slaves to the Arabs.