https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2019-03/hms-adr031119.php>The largest study to date of ancient DNA from the Iberian Peninsula (modern-day Portugal and Spain) offers new insights into the populations that lived in this region over the last 8,000 years. The most startling discovery suggests that local Y chromosomes were almost completely replaced during the Bronze Age.>Starting in 2500 B.C. and continuing for about 500 years, the analyses indicate, tumultuous social events played out that reshaped Iberians' paternal ancestry continuing to today.>"This is one of the strongest pieces of evidence in ancient-DNA research of sex bias in the prehistoric period," said Iñigo Olalde, a postdoctoral fellow in the lab of David Reich at Harvard Medical School and first author of the study.The actual paper isn't available but here's another one to tied you all over:https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(19)30145-9?rss=yes
>Father figures>As far back as 2500 B.C., the researchers found, Iberians began living alongside people who moved in from central Europe and carried recent genetic ancestry from the Russian steppe. Within a few hundred years, analyses showed, the two groups had extensively interbred.>For example, at a Bronze Age site known as the Castillejo de Bonete in Spain where a woman and man were found buried side by side, analyses revealed that the woman's ancestry was entirely local, while the man had very recent ancestors from central Europe.>To the researchers' surprise, men and women from the two groups contributed strikingly unequal proportions of DNA to subsequent generations.>Before the central Europeans moved in, Iberians had no detectable recent ancestry from outside the Iberian Peninsula. After 2000 B.C., 40 percent of Iberians' overall ancestors and 100 percent of their patrilineal ancestors--that is, their father and their father's father and so forth--could be traced to the incoming groups from central Europe.
>North African ancestry was more widespread in Iberia during the Roman period (about 20 B.C. to 400 A.D.) than previously appreciated, especially in the south. The genetic influences occurred well before groups from North Africa conquered Iberia during the 8th century A.D.It's fun to see that the Moors actually didn't make any big impacts genetically.
Makes me wonder what they actually tested. There were some fairly advanced cultures in South Spain. I wonder if they tested their remains.
https://reich.hms.harvard.edu/sites/reich.hms.harvard.edu/files/inline-files/2019_Olalde_Science_IberiaTransect_Supplement.pdfhttps://reich.hms.harvard.edu/sites/reich.hms.harvard.edu/files/inline-files/2019_Olalde_Science_IberiaTransect_0.pdfThe article paper with supplements.
>>6297112Really cool. Seems like we actually got more Greek samples and from the Classical Greece period. >Many of our individuals with working genome-wide data from northeast Iberia and datedto the past ~2500 years were excavated from the site of Empúries, the most importantGreek colony in the Iberian Peninsula and later occupied by the Romans.>In PCA (Fig. 1C-D), most of the individuals from Empúries form two clusters: one (whichwe call Empúries1) plotting close to the Iron Age Iberia cluster that includes samplesfrom the nearby site of Ullastret and the other (which we call Empúries2) plotting closeto Bronze Age samples from the eastern Mediterranean such as the Mycenaean samples from Greece (167). The presence of two genetically distinct populations is furthersupported by different patterns of FST estimated with present-day populations (Fig. S8) and by Y-chromosome haplogroup composition (Table S4). Empúries2 was leastdifferentiated from populations from the central and eastern Mediterranean region andwas dominated by Y-chromosome haplogroup J, present in high frequencies precisely inthose regions, whereas Empúries1 was least differentiated from western Europeanpopulations and contained only R1b lineages, similar to the Bronze and Iron Agepopulations from Iberia. We find the two clusters in the three periods of the site for which we have genetic data: the Greek, Hellenistic and Roman periods. This demonstrates that the ancient town of Empúries was inhabited by local Iberians as well as by colonists from the Eastern Mediterranean, which agrees with historical sources and archaeological evidence.
>>6296558>It's fun to see that the Moors actually didn't make any big impacts genetically.That was already well knowed. In modern spain and portugal populations the caucasid north african is quite small 2% - 8%. Ancient samples of iberians had already showed that presence, and the fact that northern iberia scores more (galicia or leon) was already an indicator that it had no relation with moors (since moors stayed few time in the north). Now the question is if those shared aleles are iberian or north african in origin, since ancient populations of both sides share some ancient ancestry.The recent info tells us that it was neolithic iberian and middle eastern farmers that migrated to north africa:https://m.phys.org/news/2018-03-scientists-genomic-ancestry-stone-age.htmlThis is how in calculations iberians show up with some "north african" dots, because north africans are partly iberian themselves
>>6297529>Gene flow from North Africa continued into the Muslim period, as is clear from Muslim burials with elevated North African and sub-Saharan African ancestry (Fig. 2D, fig. S4, and table S22) and from uniparental markers typical of North Africa not present among pre-Islamic individuals (Fig. 2D and fig. S11). Present-day populations from southern Iberia harbor less North African ancestry (25) than the ancient Muslim burials, plausibly reflecting expulsion of moriscos (former Muslims converted to Christianity) and repopulation from the north, as supported by historical sources and genetic analysis of present-day groups (25). The impact of Muslim rule is also evident in northeast Iberia in seven individuals from Sant Julià de Ramis from the 8th to 12th centuries CE who, unlike previous ancient individuals from the same region, show North African–related ancestry (Fig. 2C and table S19) and a complete overlap in PCA with present-day Iberians (Fig. 1D)lol
I am steppe man
>>6297575>>Gene flow from North Africa continued into the Muslim period, as is clear from Muslim burials with elevated North African and sub-Saharan African ancestry (Fig. 2D, fig. S4, and table S22) and from uniparental markers typical of North Africa not present among pre-Islamic individuals (Fig. 2D and fig. S11)I seriously can´t understand how they conclude such when on the same exact study they show that pre islamic samples had E1b and J (samples from the 3th century, Fig S.11 and Fig.2)
Guys, you got clearly blacked.
>>6297575Literally look to Fig.2 pre islamic individuals were more "north african" than the islamic period ones.With the exception of the 2 samples that score SSA that are clearly outliers.
>>6297713It was literally the other way around, iberians were more med and became more north shifted.
>>6297728Compare Iron Age Iberia and modern Spain. >>6297706Islamic ones had literally Sub-Saharan haplos like E1b1a.
It's over for anti-steppists.
>>6297713Iberia Eneolithic mixing with Corded Ware would lead to that position on the PCA
>>6297772Iron Age Iberia was actually Central European newcomers.
>>6297793Why? It clearly proves IE as rootless racemixers.Neolithics had a long standing genetic continuity, but with arrival of beakers, everything went to shit with a new immigrant group every few hundred years.
>>6297812Basques cluster with them.
>>6297772>Islamic ones had literally Sub-Saharan haplos like E1b1a.That's outliers they even explain such. E1b1a on modern iberians is literally non existent.>Compare Iron Age Iberia and modern Spain. modern Spain clusters north, than the vast absolute majority of the iron age or bronze age samples for iberia.
>Visigothic graves>mtdna>mutherfucking C from Huns Holy shit, Germs are literally Huns
>>6297847Except modern Spaniards don't cluster with Iron Age and Bronze Age samples. Only Basques do. You are clearly pulled towards Africa.
>>6297862Towards the Aegean*
>>6297862Spaniards don't even cluster with Roman-era Iberians.
>>6297868>>6297868Lol yeah, I'm sure it was few Roman and Greek trades that changed your gene pool and not a massive influx of Muslims from North Africa.
The most interesting thing about these papers is that I1 is shown to originate in pre-WHG Iberia
>>6297862wha? No.(let's take germany as the shift north example) Nodern spaniards cluster north than ancient iberians, much more north than ancient neolithic iberians, north than bronze age iberians and even north than the majority of iron age samples for iberians. As you can look east-west modern spaniards are between between 3th century iberians plus aegean and iron age iberians.
Is there a table showing Y-DNA or something similar?
>>6297921They are also all shifted towards the Middle East, unlike the Basques.
Do not respond to Amerimutts. Anyway, the paper shows Iron Age Greeks were just about not different from Bronze Age Greeks. Debunking the idea that the huge shift in modern Greeks predates the movements of Slavs.
>>6297928>>6297887No, dude, their position east-west is exactly the same coherent with neolithic ancient iberians, they just moved north due steppe waves.and basques are no good example, for anything, since they are one of the most isolated populations of europe, like sardinians.
>>6297956It's actually showed massive shifts north among Mediterranean populations. Iron Age Greeks cluster north of Bronze Age Greeks, modern Greeks cluster north of Iron Age Greeks, and it's true across the Mediterranean.
I think the most surprising to me is how truly Mediterranean was the ancient world. A lot of Roman samples with Levantine and North African Ancestry.
>>6298029And then Germanoids and Araboids ruined everything.
>>6298029>MediterraneanAfrican, you mean african
>>6296494When are we gonna stop pretending that the aryan master race is a "conspiracy theory"?
>>6298075Because it wasn't a master race. They were violent steppe niggers, nothing more nothing less.
>>6298029>A lot of Roman samples with Levantine and North African Ancestry.Did you mean deep med neolithic, and "african" aka caucasoid.
- 1st Bronze age Wave into spain 40% Dna replacement but 100% whole genome replacement throughout the peninsula. - Another Iron age Indo European Celtic Wave came in to peninsula BUT DIDN'T EFFECT THE BASQUES.- Bell beakers probably did not change Spains language as basques still speak pre-Indo European and they weren't effected by later waves of migration.- URNFIELD Culture seemed to Spread celtic languages into spain-Britain received a pulse of South shifting ancestry in the Iron Age, did Urnfield culture also bring Celtic languages to Britain during this time too? wtf langauge did the British beaker people speak? Northwestbloc?
Genetic paper on spain: everyone focuses on the moorish dna as usual and argues about it hurr durr not white etc etc - 1st Bronze age Wave into spain 40% Dna replacement but 100% whole genome replacement throughout the peninsula. - Another Iron age Indo European Celtic Wave came in to peninsula BUT DIDN'T EFFECT THE BASQUES.- Bell beakers probably did not change Spains language as basques still speak pre-Indo European and they weren't effected by later waves of migration.- URNFIELD Culture seemed to Spread celtic languages into spain-Britain received a pulse of South shifting ancestry in the Iron Age, did Urnfield culture also bring Celtic languages to Britain during this time too? wtf langauge did the British beaker people speak? Northwestbloc?
>>6298064north african is african but not 'african african' liek aytyyyyylmao
>>6297713BRONZE AGE IBERIA: WEST SHIFTED (post beaker male replacement)IRON AGE IBERIA: NORTH SHIFTEDMODERN SPAIN: SOUTH SHIFTED
>>6298213FUTURE SPAIN: SOUTH SHIFTED
>>6298182What does 40% DNA replacement but 100% whole genome replacement mean? And am I white or not then?t. Alberto Barbosa
>>6297855mtDNA C isn't necessarily Hunnic
>>6298241It means they replaced 40% of your ancestry but 99% of male ancestry. Basically, original Spaniard males disappeared and Beakers took their women. The greatest cucking in human history.
>>6298241sorry i mistyped, the proto-nw euros (beakers) (fukn brits) replaced 100% of the Y-DNA but only 40% the total dna in the iron age. They didn't change the language though. Later celts who where similar to the beakers would then come and change the languagesee the picture i posted above with reichs lecture for a diagram. I can't tell you if you are white, if you feel white you are white mr obuugu
Also, there's some info about pigmentation. Bronze/Iron Age guys had higher frequency of light skin than farmers (but lower than modern Spaniards). Stupid lactose tolerance gene was practically absent throughout Bronze Age AND Iron Age. Seems like this stuff actually evolved in the last 2000 years. Really surprising.
who where the spansish historic people? WHG's? WHGs mixed with ancient nafris?Then spain got neolithic'dSpain then got bleached by beakers, bleached by celts, then blacked by... nafris?
>>6298305Magdalenians.Magdalenians got replaced by Villabrunans.Villabrunans mixed with Neolithic Farmers. Steppoids came and in the Bronze Age killed the men off and took their women. Also in the Bronze Age some niggers from Africa came, but they were rare.In the Iron Age new Central Europeans came and mixed with Bronze Age Iberians.Also in the Iron Age East Meds arrived and gave Iberians civilization (Greeks, Phoenicians).Then Romans came and with them all kinds of ancestry (East Med, North Africa, Italy and so on)Then the Germans came. Then Arabs and Berbers. Then they fucked off but still left some of their genes. And there you go, this mutt is a modern Spaniard.
>>6297713Himmler saw Nordic traits in the Lady of Elche. Really makes you wonder if she was one of those German clustering Iberia_IA.
>>6298336Himmler was a mentally ill larper. The majority of Iron Age samples don't cluster with any Germans.
>>6298348>Visigoths cluster with Hun(garians)What's with Germans and Hunnic connection?
>>6298305>>6298333nafris?kek Nothey (spanish and portugese) are partially neolithic farmers and partially steppe, bronze age. These are the main combos.Ancient neolithic samples of iberians already showed some north african input, even here on this study pre-islamic samples already showed those dots, remember modern iberians have low components of that, not even 9%.
>>6298213Modern spain clusters northern in comparison with bronze age iberia and the majority of iron age iberia. Ancient iberians (neolithic those were south shifted.
>>6297529>2-8%More like 10-20% >north africans are partly iberian themselvesSounds like cope
>>6297575>The impact of Muslim rule is also evident in northeast Iberia in seven individuals from Sant Julià de Ramis from the 8th to 12th centuries CE who, unlike previous ancient individuals from the same region, show North African–related ancestry (Fig. 2C and table S19) and a complete overlap in PCA with present-day Iberians (Fig. 1D)This quote is joke tier, they are comparing, samples that cluster with modern spaniards, with samples of what they call visigoths:>the 6th century site of Pla de l'Horta in the northeast—bear witness to events in this period. These individuals, archaeologically interpreted as Visigoths, are shifted from those at L'Esquerda in the direction of Northern and Central Europe (Figs. 1D and 2C and table S18), and we observe the Asian mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) haplogroup C4a1a also found in Early Medieval Bavaria (20), supporting a recent link to groups with ancestry originally derived from Central and Eastern Europe."That those cluster close and shifted to modern germans.It's an absurd. and then they also compare with greeknized or italianized 10 samples:>site of L'Esquerda in the northeast, who show a shift from the Iron Age population in the>direction of present-day Italians and Greeks >(Fig. 1D)"They have to compare with neolithic iberians (autossomally), specially those in the north (asturias or galicia or leon portugal). They have here compared well with some pre islamic samples of southeast Iberia (roman times) that already had those north african dots.
>>6298554>More like 10-20%Nopeit's usually between 3% and 7%https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GWhNZcfTQ2hMSK9Ni1IqG7aXHB00SRE5L6ED2osPs9M/edit?pref=2&pli=1#gid=0>Sounds like copeIt isn´t, any model shows that.
>Greeks and Romans lacked E-V13 Greeks and Albanians confirmed as Amazigh rapebabies
>>6298182Beakers spoke Proto-Celtic.
probably a male-only plague. mhkay
>Euros genocided and destroyed countless cultures all over the world >raped millions of women spreading their filthy genes from Australia to South America >few black people migrated to Europe because their countries were destroyed by Europeans>WTF, STOP THIS WHITE GENOCIDE!
>>6298650E-V13 is more common in Spain, even in Germay, than in north Africa. The greek samples were probably J-heavy greek islanders.
>4 Greek samples from Mycenaean to Hellenistic period>all J It's not a lot, but I find it rather surprising that not a single E1b appeared.
>>6299609There are areas in Greece and especially greek islands with 50% J2. Still a lot of J.
>Sicilians and South Italians almost genetically identical to Aegean Bronze Age>Iberians clearly blacked by MoorsLMAAAOOO APRISHITTY IBEROMOORS BTFO.
>>6299609>>6299616CAUCASUS BVLL MASTER RACE
The apeshittians who pretend Iberians are Celts got BTFO on this day. South Italians are like ancient Greeks but Iberians are Moor rapebabies. You should think twice before you claim you're Celtic since they were only there for roughly the same amount of time as the Moors.
>>6299875>portuguese are the darkest
>>6299896Of course. They have the most North African admix along with Galicians. Northeast Iberia used to be very different genetically before the Moors invaded: >>6297713
Highest north African input in Iberia still has a weird gradient, west to east more than south to north, as one would expect from being linked heavily to Moors. In Iberia IIRC most models put Galicia on top with 9-10%, along with Portugal. Then there's the Pasiegos, all the way up north with their very high frequency of E-M81
>>6299903The Moors fled to Moortugal when they started being slaughtered in Spain and from there to Galicia. It's a myth that Galicians are light by the way. They can look very swarthy and exotic sometimes. Nothing Celtic about them, those LARPers don't even have a surviving Celtic language, who are they kidding?
Lol, it's around 5% North Africa according to the paper. It's surprising how white they are considering all those Muslims. You're making it sound like Spaniards are practically Moroccans.
>>6299929I couldn't find anything about the percentage. All it says is that the Moors had an impact on the Northeast at least for sure. The study also avoided the Western parts of Iberia where North African ancestry is found in much higher concentrations.
Does the subclade of I2 in pre-R1b Iberians match the one in Sardinians? I remember a study a few years back showed it had a shallow presence in Sardinia relative to G2
>>6299590That's because we fucked white women a lot. Whiteys simply cannot compete against our charm and birthrate.E-M183 is bloondline of the sons of Amurru, may Baʿal strengthen us and may Athirat gives us a great posterity.
>>6299949Table 4 from the supplements has all the Y-DNA. There are definitely various I2a1-M26/L158 like in Sardinia, but also I2a1b and a bunch of I2a2 too.G2 were definitely getting cucked for a long time
Iberians are now excluded from the Med BVLL club. They are Moors but with a Celtic wannabe complex just because they cluster a bit close to North Italians. Pathetic.
>>6299917ah yes, the classic frekled red haired moors of Galicia
>>6299988Iberians can't have red hair
>>6300006but they do, rarely, but they do
>>6299987stfu mongoloid sissyMeds = North Africans + Levantines
>>6300008Because some have Jewish admixture especially in Portugal
>>6300006my greatgrandmother wasn't a frekled redhaired woman thanks to moors, that's for sure, she was of Celtic stock, one of the very few surviving
>>6298348Interesting some of the historic Iberian (Non IE) samples are still close to EEF/Anatolia N
>>6300040HAHAHAHAHADelusional concubine, go back to my harem before i beat the shit out of you
>>6299971There was still plenty of G2 in Neolithic Spain and Chalcolithic Spain.
>>6299988Not seeing it. Sorry. Galicia does not have a higher rate than the other northern parts.
>>6300071Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't want to humiliate you enough with this instead: http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2011/10/pigmentation-genetics-of-europeans.html
>>6300068I live in the french part where it's supposed to be 5-10% but I doubt it's even 1%bullshit map, source?
Nice and diverse.
>>6300084https://www.eupedia.com/genetics/origins_of_red_hair.shtmlPic related is from 23andme data.
>>6300108Then the steppoids came. Amerindian-tier genocide. Will you pay reparations?
>>6300064compared to neolithic anatolia though there seems to be quite the disequilibrium, even if they were WHG-enricher farmersthe former was I think 15-20% I2 at bestwith the British neolithic it is even more pronounced, I think barely a single G2 was found there among all the I2 sampled so farsumming these samples with the older Iberian ones I'm fairly sure I2 quite outclasses G2, and the same is essentially true in Sardinia, especially in the rural center which is closest to neolithic Europe and Basques, with I2 reaching up to 60% in some areas and G2 barely above(if not below) R1b
>>63001095% frequency=1/400 individuals has two copies
>>6299917The reconquista was finished in Portugal centuries before Spain finished theirs
>>6300123There weren't any G farmers in Britain samples. I believe it's the result of a small group of men from the continent migrating to Britains (most, if not all, of them being I2).
>>6300116How did the Basques get cucked by them but managed to keep their language though? Not only that, but I think the majority of the peninsula wasn't speaking IE languages during the Bronze Age.
>>6300138Maybe G-men just have poor sperm
>>6300146Yeah, it's weird. Maybe they actually weren't Indo-Europeans. Aren't there some attempts at linking Basque with Caucasus languages? Maybe they are also intrusive to Iberia.
>>6300147I don't know how their relationship looked like. There are some I2 males already in Anatolia (buried in a typical Anatolian fashion), but Balkan region and Central European farmers (LBK) seem to remain mostly G, while in the West farmers acquired a lot of European male lineages (but typical Anatolian ones also survived). I don't think we will ever know what exactly happened, but it doesn't seem like farmers were conquered by local hunter-gatherers. The graves don't show any evidence of elite dominance.
>>6297826>rootless racemixersYou misspelled Master Race conquerors
>>6300146maybe we should look at south America, I was thinking, are there mutts there who still speak the native language?I think language does require some time and influence to change, maybe some wolf pack of steppe warlords did make their way into Basque country and muhdicked the women, but the overall geography and situation of the Basque country didn't allow much influence to persist over time, so the language and religion stayed mostly as it was bar perhaps some influence, which, being likely from quite old Indo-Europeans, is even hard to attest based on comparative methods.
>>6300181It's because the mixing between farmers and hunter gatherers was harmonious for the most part. LBK are 30% WHG genetically.
>>630019530% sounds a bit too much for LBK. They are not that different from Barcin. 15-20% seems more realistic.
>>6300195>30%seems quite a high figure, more like 15%
>>6298348I like that one Chalcolithic African (I4246).
>>6300207Apparently he was male and treated like an ordinary member of the community based on his burialGranted that these people were all fairly swarthy so they might have looked similar despite not being genetically close
>>6300202>>6300203I am lumping the WHG ancestry that was already present in the Anatolian farmers themselves together with it. Look at this map, Europe_MNChL was pretty close to WHG.
Any comments on the other paper about Mesolithic Iberia? Persistence of magdalenian ancestry was kinda expected seeing some results about La Brana and Chan_Mesolithic, I guess the first official Y-DNA I1 from pre neolithic Europe, in particular from Azilian culture, is an interesting one.They also report an Y-DNA C1a1a, which is kinda weird.
>>6300217C was probably quite widespread before I came. Anatolian HG was also C.
>>6300216>I am lumping the WHG ancestry that was already present in the Anatolian farmers themselves together with itAh ok, but in that case, depending how you measure things, it could be quite higher too. That mesolithic anatolian sample reported last year was modeled as ~50% WHG-related. And if the Dzudzuana paper tree model is solid, it could be even higher.
>>6300217Some guy on Anthrogenica said the Azilian I1 shared about 1/5 or so SNP's with modern I1. That would put the TMRCA around 24-20k BC.I've always though I1 might be an Atlantic fringe thing, barely surviving and never expanding far so an Iberian origin would fit into that.
>>6300207Archaeologists have found donkey bones in a BB site from Iberia, The donkey was first domesticated in Ethiopia/Egypt in the fourth millennium be so before this discovery archaeologists thought it was the Phoenicians who introduced donkeys in Iberia
>>6300081Thats not at all related to red hair though?
>>6300223Yeah but so far essentially all of these Cs were from a quite unique subclade of C, C1a2 aka C-V20, this one though is C1a1, which today is seemingly only appreciable in frequency among the Japanese. Even Sunghir males from Paleolithic Russia were C1a2 already. Interesting stuff.
>>6300217Wasnt C1a1a found in La Brana?
>>6300255Probably just a false call thenReverse Solutrean is always a fun idea though
>>6300260La Brana was C1a2>>6300261>false callyeah was thinking the same
>>6300266C1a1 might still be of European origin though. It would explain a lot of questions about ANE if it were.
Based Mongols avenged their C brothers.
>>6300317They were already Nafricoons by the 4th century
>>6300317This also kills the black Moors meme. By far the majority of them were North African/Levantines mixed with local Iberians. Even those guys with Sub-Saharan ancestry probably wouldn't cluster with modern West Africans.
>>6300331The 3rd-4th century samples are from Southeast Iberia only though. The Northeast got Moor'd. They didn't have North African ancestry before that.
>>6300342The one with 50% SSA has an African maternal line and apparently mostly Iberian fatherI doubt Black Supremacists would take pride in that
>>6300194The Basque Country wasn't even inhabited by basques until the population displacements of the roman conquest. You can now continue larping like a retard
Also, the Southeast might've always been Nafri, but we also see an increase in North African ancestry after the Moorish invasion. Look at how perfectly aligned the 5-8th and 10-16th CE samples are with Nafris.
Visigoths with E1b and J2. Funny how the non-IE speakers in this paper are dominated by R1b, while confirmed Indo-Europeans have mostly non-steppe Y-DNA.
>>6300389Not as if either is rare somewhere like Austria
>>6300317>3-4th century Iberia That much North African>R1b >That much North African>E1b >That much IberianSo Spain was basically an interracial breeding ground. Yikes.
I'm disappointed that there are so few samples from El Argar (males only from its periphery), nothing from Los Millares, and only one male sample from Tartessians.
>>6300146Just like happened in Paraguay.
>>6300420And nothing from Moortugal too or at least the areas close to it. I'm really curious about it since it's the area with the highest Natri/Moor admixture in the peninsula. Some Moortuguese was in denial about it and saying it was all ancient but it doesn't look like it to me.
>>6300420Did you expectativas otherwise? It's some guys picking a few samples from a couple of sites and then comes the full retards extrapolating muh ancestry conclusions to the entire peninsula.
>>6300570>few samplesIt's not few, but still not enough. There seem to be East Mediterranean influence on El Argar and Tartessians. I wonder if we would find some East Meds there.
>>6298188>- 1st Bronze age Wave into spain 40% Dna replacement but 100% whole genome replacement throughout the peninsula.what this even mean?
Had a quick look at the Visigoth samples. They have jackshit to do with Scandinavians.They look like a mixture of Czechs, Germans and Spaniards. The most Central European ones being a roughly equal mix of the groups mentioned.
>>6300786read the thread you pomp
>>6300787Some have Alan admixture btw
>>6300342they claim that the north african component was black
>>6300787Obviously, they were quite mixed by the time they got to those regions. Same for Ostrogoths, Vandals, Lombards, etc. They originated in Scandinavia like in 500-300 BC. All Germanic tribes do anyway.
>>6298348>>6300386Am I seeing this right? Why are there some Iron Age and Copper Age samples clustering with Germans?
>>6300797>40% Dna replacement but 100% whole genome replacementexplain
>>6300962Copper Age samples - largely unadmixed German Beakers Iron Age samples - probably a new wave of people from Central Europe. They think it could be Urnfield.
>>6300969I see, but what about the Roman/Greek empuries then? Germanoid soldiers? And the rest employed Berber soldiers from the Carthaginians?
>>6300962Yes. In a more sesolved analysis, they would probably cluster with SW Germans.>>6300342It almost looks like the north Africans they mixed with had unlike modern North Africans, no subsaharan DNA.
>>6301001It's baked in the component
>>6300990Probably locals. These empuries are from North-East Spain. Classical and Hellenistic samples cluster with Mycenaeans, so they were very likely Greeks. I don't know about those Roman guys, they seem to be a mixture of Levant and North African ancestry and all three men are J2.
>>6301006I'm not sure what they used for reference.Local Iberians is probably an ancient sample set and it would only be good to use samples from comparable timeframes.
haven't been here in months, but have you guys already discussed the news about ancient Italian DNA?for those who aren't aware of it, 134 ancient samples from the mesolithic to the renaissance should be published within some monthsone guy who attended a presentation of the conference said some interesting stuff, though not much was disclosed
>>6301038>I don't know about those Roman guys, they seem to be a mixture of Levant and North African ancestry and all three men are J2.I haven't seen everything yet, but they could have been phoenicians from a north African colony. Mostly male J2 seafarers with wives from north african harbors would explain this genetic makeup. Otherwise there is not much J2 in north Africa.
>>6301056check this thread out:https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?16487-The-Italian-Peninsula-through-Ancient-DNA&s=5a2439c25fd7e7784265152c60058e27
Can we explain North African ancestry in South Spain with the Carthaginians since it wasn't present in the Iron Age?
>>6301038Hellenistic samples were either similar to Greeks or more northern. One of the samples is very Celtic, in the northern French sense.
>>6301074basically read the second post, it's the summary of the guy who actually attended the presentation, the rest of the thread is more or less discussion around this post
>>6301068Yes, in the paper they said they could be Phoenicians. J2 seems to spread with Phoenicians and Greeks. >>6301050It's not out yet, but I think the result will be similar to the Iberian ones. It seems like the Mediterranean was once more "Southern" than today with trades from North Africa and the Levant settling all over the Roman Empire. >>6300317Additional Levant ancestry in pre-Muslim Spain and plenty of North African ancestry already in 5-8th century South Spain. Reconquista and the expulsion of moriscos probably changed the Spanish gene pool substantially.
>>6301077Yes, I think they were basically proto-Celts. They don't really cluster with Germans, but rather with the French. Some of them with North French/South Germans probably. There is one Hallstatt sample with similar ancestry.
>>6301101>Yes, in the paper they said they could be Phoenicians. J2 seems to spread with Phoenicians and Greeks.I'm curious about the Italian paper and the arrival of J2 there. In general it probably came alongside Anatolian and Iran/Caucasus related ancestry.Spainards got it from a secondary source because they are comparably less eastern shifted.
>>6301050>>6301101The most interesting thing about it is that it implies the modern central Italian genetic profile didn't exist until recently. I guess the 60% of the samples clustering with North Italians were Iron Age people with relatively undiluted steppe ancestry and the rest was after the Greek-like people completely colonized the region. In the imperial period there are some foreigners in the middle of all the natives as expected.
>>6301193If they cluster with North Italy they were definitely not pure steppe people.
>>6301193>centroid of overall cluster in central Italy but no samples occur there I honestly don't know what did he mean by this. If the samples don't come from Central Italy, but for example from North and South Italy then no wonder some of them are like North Italians and other like South Italians.
>>6301050Give me them sweet Etruscan samples
I'll point out that besides the Rome Paper there's also one covering Neolithic Italy to Neolithic Tunisia.
This kills the Nordicist.
>Iosif Lazaridis on blog:>The interesting thing about the samples from Empuries is that they were colonists from Phocaea (which is in western Anatolia), who were themselves descended from people from Phokis (mainland Greece).>Thus there were multiple opportunities for them to be different than the published Mycenaean samples from the Peloponnese>(1) Because they were later>(2) Because they were from a different part of Greece>(3) Because people from Phokis may have admixed when they founded Phocaea>(4) Because people from Phocaea may have admixed when they founded Empuries or in the centuries thereafter down to the Roman era>So, while we don't have the missing links, we can infer (indirectly) a lot about what was going on in the Aegean and western Anatolia from these faraway western Greek samplesGreeks confirmed swarths.
Phocis is here.
>>6298648>it's usually between 3% and 7%https://www.livescience.com/37092-southern-europeans-have-african-genes.html>The team found that for Southwestern Europeans (those from Italy, Spain and Greece), between 4 and 20 percent of their genomes came from North Africa, compared to less than 2 percent in Southeastern Europe.
>>6301429That’s Phocis not Phocea
>>6301394Now splat the Iberian samples here
>>6301416Ionian Greeks. Nordicists claim that Dorian Greeks were pure 100% Scandinavians, while Ionians were filthy boy-fucking mutts.
>>6301449Phocis was Aeolian so North Greeks retard
>>6301438>half-assed pop-sci article from 2013 still using ADMIXTURE and no ancient samples whatsoeveryou can do better anon, try https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LPWAEC3dbAEDu8aBAAcxIOa5CQjuflt0f0cvhCpZ_ME/edit#gid=2101783313only the canaries reach ~22% Moroccan-like input
>>6301439>>6301449>from Phokis (mainland Greece).They weren't genetically Anatolians.>DoriansIt debunks the Dorians making such a huge shift in Greeks' genetics.
>>6301038>I don't know about those Roman guys, they seem to be a mixture of Levant and North African ancestry and all three men are J2.Probably the ancestors of Sephardic Jews.
>>6300787>Had a quick look at the Visigoth samples. They have jackshit to do with Scandinavians.They look like a mixture of Czechs, Germans and Spaniards. The most Central European ones being a roughly equal mix of the groups mentioned.Man it’s almost as if Continental “Germanics” were/are a hodgepodge confederation of northern Euro groups including proper Germanics, Slavs and Celts and not the pure Scandinavians /pol/ and stormniggers make them out to be.
>>6301512I hope that someone will extract more terminal branches. Doubt they are sephardic
>>6301541>German Nationalism didn't exist for most of historyWho'd a thunk?
>>6301351>Neolithic TunisiaThis is BIG. Do you know when it will be published?
>>6301351She has that old italian aunt look to her, I can picture her as a short and sharp tongued 60 something lady whos extra huggy when you meet at family reunions.
>>6300386Is it me or Medieval South East Iberians are farmoids?
>>6301556No. Last I looked into it the paper was still having the samples for it ran.There's also a paper with an Early Middle Kingdom Egypt mummy (I'm talking no younger than about 1910 B.C.) getting worked on.
>>6301585Meh, only one mummy. I think it might be hard to test famous mummies as this method destroys the sample. Egyptian authorities probably won't allow Westerners to do this.
>>6301611https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Djehutynakht_(10A)It's that one. Good sample all in all.
>>6301585The Capsian culture was always a mystery, some claimed that its bearers were morphologically Levantine, but others claimed that they were part-SSA. 2019 looks like a promising year, perhaps as good as 2017.
>>6301622Is this the same mummy?https://www.mdpi.com/2073-4425/9/3/135/htm
>>6297473>Really cool. Seems like we actually got more Greek samples and from the Classical Greece period.if elite then they will be Nordic or high in steppe
>>6301660Yes. It's a good sample since:A. It's early on in the Middle Kingdom.B. Nobility.C. In Upper Egypt.Someone even emailed one of the researchers and got confirmation that nuclear DNA is coming.
>>6301686They clusted with Myceneans so no.
>>6301699Noice. I just guess he will not be too much of a surprise. Basal, Anatolian and Iranian like.
>>6301701they weren't elites
>>6301830Why should there be an ethnic stratification on the first place?
>>6301855to keep the nordic blood pure
>>6301865It doesn't look like they cared much about blood purity. Mixing of IE with farmers happened in the first generations upon arrival.
Since this is serving as an all-around ancient DNA thread:https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2019/03/15/579177.full.pdfJomon DNA. Now we just need Yayoi DNA.
>>6301699I am guessing he will be mainly Natufian + EEF with a bit of Iran_N.
>>6301883I just want to see how the usual suspects will spin the findings:>Too old to be Hyksos.>Too Upper Egyptian to be foreign.
>>6301879according to jewish-funded studies
>>6301893He will be ANA + AEA
>>6301919>>6301928We already know he has mtdna U5b and is close to levantine sequences, so.
>>6301936So they literally cherrypicked a foreigner again?
>>6301993>We WuzzingHe's not a Nigger stop memeing. We already have other post-Neolithic samples and they aren't Niggers.
>>6302006>day wuz bazke n sheittt >afroaziatic shuld be renamed basko-aziatic
>>6301993This doesn't include U5b subclades
>>6301993He was closest to a modern U5b2b5 individual from Lebanon, but no exact match.
>>6302011Berbers have U5. So do Levantines. No need to insert some imaginary affirmative action program in Ancient Egypt when the DNA can just be from migrations way before the mummy's time.
>>6302017So the mummy's ancestors kidnapped WHG/EHG women?
>>6302027Probably related to Neolithic movements from Europe
>>6302017Only Siwa, who are language shifters and have the highest frequency of R1b in NA, have U5.
>>6300872Lombards were still genetically Scandinavian like by the time they settled in Italy. Dna studies confirm it.
>>6300389Amazing, considering the Frankish nobility composed of of J2.
>>6302070It looks for sure, among modern people, Lombards are most similar Scandinavians. This is cool because they claimed to have originated in Scandinavia. Using nMonte for K36 results, all high coverage Lombards score about 100% in Scandinavian countries. Eurogenes K15Cl93. West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 4.340765CL145Orcadian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 3.649648SZ12Tabassaran + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 6.332824SZ13Swedish + Swedish + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 8.660437
>>6302070>>6302087I guess the Lombards were a more recent migration, but Goths and Vandals had been living in Eastern Germanic lands for a long time, so their genetics and language were a bit different.
>>6302133Reminder that Nationalism didn't exist for the majority of history and that the inhabitants of what is now Germany did not see themselves as belong to a whole 'nother "nation" than their neighbors over east.
>>6299522their countries were created by Europeans you poncenotice how Ethiopians aren't represented among the migrants, even though the Italians almost destroyed their country
>>6298749there is no evidence that the beakers spoke a celtic language
>>6301494R1b out of Iberia in 2019?
>>6296494the paper is available >>6297713there was exogamy and gene flow from Iberia to North Africa from the neolithic through the Iron Age, Iberians today are mostly South-Central Euro>>6297889Yes>>6298333they weren’t niggers
>>6302725beakers where too early for celtic languages, also there is no evidence for a celtic presence in the netherland prior to germanic expansions
>>6299898>more>>6299917>>6300317>>6300510The north african values in the iberian peninsula are laughable, 2% or 6%, portugal and spain and the gradient is not north south, for example asturias or galicians have more than andalusians or portuguese. It's not related with moors, but with pre historic movmenets.Iberians genetically cluster between north italians and french, not close at all to any non european population.
>>6299917>>6299987>spanish and portuguese>moors
>>6302953>>6302961It's funny that you can only still spout your baseless delusional bullshit because there were no post-BA samples in Moortugal/Western Iberia. Northeast Spain had zero North African admixture before the Moors invaded. Southeast Spain had it probably because of Carthaginian colonization.
>>6302953Cope more Moor>In terms of autosomal DNA, the most recent study regarding African admixture in Iberian populations was conducted in April 2013 by Botigué et al. using genome-wide SNP data for over 2000 individuals, concluding that Spain and Portugal hold significant levels of North African ancestry. Estimates of shared ancestry averaged from 4% in some places to 10% in the general population, the populations of the Canary Islands outputted up to 20% of shared ancestry with north Africans, although the Canary islands are a Spanish exclave located in the African continent, and thus this output is not representative of the Iberian population; these same results did not exceed 2% in other western or southern European populations.
The Moors who visited Iberia had no notable connection to the Congo. Don't know what you're harping on having Moor blood is about. The latest study even shows that the NA sample was far closer to a German than a Nigerian.
>>6304126Did you somehow miss the mulatto with a 100% SSA mother with L2 haplogroup?Moors forced black pussy on innocent white Iberian boys
>>6304131Did you miss the E-M291 guy? Moors turned Spain into a place of worship for the BBC.
Your obsession with black men is ridiculous.
>>6304131>>6304136>Amerimuuts/Anglos in actionPorn is degenerate and watching it makes you a cuck.>>6304144It's just an Amerimutt/Anglo thing. An obese country that lives for consumption would worship such a kind.
>>6304119https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LPWAEC3dbAEDu8aBAAcxIOa5CQjuflt0f0cvhCpZ_ME/edit#gid=210178331310.1% in Moortugal, 11.4% IN Galicia, 10.1%. in Extremadura, 10.4% in Castile and León, 7% in Andalusia.Unfortunately, we didn't get any post-BA samples from those regions in this study.
>>63003172/20 is still 10%. It could be a coincidence, but blacks probably weren't that uncommon in Moorish Iberia. I always thought black moors is a complete meme and the only blacks were some rare slaves, but this was probably not the case.
>>6304159To be honest, they were mulattos. Pure blacks were probably incredibly rare.
>>6304164Moors forced Iberian men to have sex with the darkest women in all of Africa
>>6304158>Oceania>None of the indigenous inhabitants cluster near the Congo.Nice try We Wuzzer. How come the mods don't ban your ilk?
And now modern day Spaniards are like sub 30% PIE and 85% R1b
>>6304179They are more northern than Bronze Age Spaniards due to further migrations. It was Beakers that replaced 40% of their ancestry. Beakers were already mixed with farmers (to be honest, even Yamnaya was mixed, but Yamnaya is used as a proxy for "pure" steppe ancestry)
>>6304189Well, modern day Spanairds are barely 30% Yamnaya, so yeah.Heck, even Anglos barely pass the 40% boundary.Oh wait, did I say 30%? I meant 20%, about as "aryan" as Iranians.
>>6304179More like 55% R1b and 1/4 PIE
>>6304194>still posting this useless trash
>>6304205>responds to an old image with another outdated one"northeast European" has no bearing to groups like Yamnaya or WHG. Poles are nowhere near 73% Yamnaya, heck no one since the corded ware people is 75% Yamnaya. Here, this is a much more recent "ANCIENT ANCESTRAL BREAKDOWN" for you.
>>6304194It depends of a model. LBK_EN are European farmers with additional WHG ancestry. If you model European as pure farmers (from Anatolia) and Yamnaya then many Europeans will show higher percentage of WHG and Yamnaya. But in a model with very ancient "pure" populations like Anatolia_N, EHG, CHG and WHG I think most Europeans would have mostly Anatolia_N ancestry.
>>6304210As you can see here, Lithuanians are about 50% Yamnaya or so. Polacks are probably around 45% on average.
>>6304214True enough, but that shouldn't influence the Yamnaya admixture. Spaniards don't have a lot of it
>>6304205You know damn well Lithuanians aren't 85% PIE. North-East-European contains both Yamna and WHG. North-European-Mesolithic probably contains some Yamna too.
>>6304221It probably also contains SHG/BHG along with SHG enriched northern farmers. Lithuanians are 50% PIE as you can see here >>6304210
>>6304215Still more than Norwegians and Swedes, which Hack et al doesn't include for obvious reasons.
>slavnigger autist ruining a good thread with his retardation againRangeban Pooland when?
>>6304194This is LBK_EN which is already significant part WHG - most calculators with pure N show french 40% Yamna anglos 50%
>>6304246Oh, I NEVER disagreed with that assertion. Obviously Lithuanians are more Aryan than Norwegians and Swedes. Its just that the 2015 breakdown included the Spaniards so I ended up using it first.
>>6304223SHG didn't likely contribute to modern populations, they had thing like EDAR mutations found among Asians, but it's not found among Scandinavians or other Europeans, their Scandinavian HG ancestry was picked up from farmers who already were WHG admixed or from some other populations.
>>6304262Anglos don't have 50%. Some Scots or Irish without Anglo admixture might have that much but certainly not all of them.
>>6304262Those are outdated AF values. Anglos are 40% Yamnaya on average according to more recent professional estimates. French are actually below 40% as you can see here >>6304210
>>6304270Either way, Lithuanians are 50% Yamnaya on average, the 85% NE-Euro is hiding various different inputs.
>>6304280Yes I agree, I should've specified I was talking more about Scandinavians and SHG in general who likely didn't contribute to modern populations, not Lithuanians specifically.
>>6304283They probably contributed to Saami through a few hoops
>>6304296Yup it's possible they contributed to some Saamis, but in a non offensive way Saamis are pretty irrelevant as they're a small population max estimates put them up to 100k and some of time are already mixed with Norwegians/Swedes etc. But as I said on European whole genome context as a whole they're largely irrelevant, maybe interesting in a way that they're outlier population living up north.
>>6304171>And now modern day Spaniards and 85% R1bNice try muut you're barely 60%
>>6304100>>6304113>>6304119>>6304158Your inferioriority complex and obsession with iberians is reveling shitskin.... your own maps show exactly what we have seen above, spanish and portuguese don´t genetically cluster with "moors". In matter of fact the closest populations to the iberians (portuguese) in the entire world (pic) are always other europeans, in fact iberians are more close to even any sweden or dane than they are with any non european.where are the moors? lul>"Genetic distances and principal component analyses show a clear differentiation of NW African and Iberian groups of samples, suggesting a strong genetic barrier matching the geographical Mediterranean Sea barrier. The restriction to gene flow may be attributed to the navigational hazards across the Straits, but cultural factors must also have played a role. ... Iberian samples show a substantial degree of homogeneity and fall within the cluster of European-based genetic diversity." >(Comas et al. 2000)>"Phylogeographic analyses show that the haplogroup composition of the ancient Iberians was very similar to that found in modern Iberian Peninsula populations, suggesting a long-term genetic continuity since pre-Roman times.">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16138912
>>6304952not even him, but quoting nearly 15 and 20 years old studies to "debunk" results that came out literally three days ago and that include nearly 300 ancient nuclear DNA samples? seriously? not even mentioning that these 271 samples, added to the hundreds already present from older studies, bring the number probably at least to 400 hundredmodern Iberians are clearly more southern and eastern shifted compared to iron age Iberians, who were essentially like Basques, this is what ancient DNA from Iberia clearly suggests, ancient DNA that was completely absent just 10 years ago, let alone 20no doubt Iberians are far closer to Europe than north Africa, but they were even closer 3000 years ago, and there were essentially almost none of the north African markers detected today, like M81(whose subclades are quite young as well)any single model about Iberians will improve once north African sources are added, with the only exception of Basques
Moortuguisos and a lot of Spaniards are surely shifted towards North Africans under these new components/models now. Of course he has to cite outdated bullshit to damage control now.
>>6305022>o "debunk" results that came out literally three days ago and that include nearly 300 ancient nuclear DNA samples? seriously???the study that came out 3 days ago, shows exactly what all pca show for a decade, that spaniards and portugese cluster where they do,between north italians and french, because of neolithic farmers and then steppe invasion.>modern Iberians are clearly more southern and eastern shifted compared to iron age IberiansYou have problems in your eyes. iron age samples (green ) the majority of them are souterhn than modern spanish cluster there:>>6297713>>6298348>who were essentially like Basques, this is what ancient DNA from Iberia clearly suggestsYou can´t understand what you see. Iron age iberians were central europeans that went to iberia,that pushed iberians north. not east or west. The neolithic iberians (look at the map on the south) just moved north, without going west or east. Basques are an isolated populated, ancient iberians and mdoern iberians are much more neolithic than basques.>no doubt Iberians are far closer to Europe than north Africa, but they were even closer 3000 years ago, Already explained above ancient iberians were much more diatnt to central europe 10.000 years ago(pie). f course then when the IE mass's came push them north.>and there were essentially almost none of the north African markers detected today, like M81(whose subclades are quite young as well)Wrong again, Ancient samples of iberians already had those small shared dna, specially in the north (galicia.Z988314 - I6543, Camino de las Yeseras Madrid ES, 2479–1945 BCE, C_Iberian_CA, non Beaker - 15402 SNPs, 46.37% Iberian, 34% West_Med, 2.38% North AfricanZ768646 - I0839, Torres Novas Portugal, 2457-2206 BCE, Bell-Beaker - 9815 SNPs, Western Neolithic Farmer 6% Central_Euro, 4.38% North AfricanZ514341 - I0261, Barcelona ES, 2850–2250 BCE, Bell-Beaker - 7594 SNPs, 56% Iberian 5.25% North African
>>6305103>old shitYour own maps show and every single pca map done ever shows that no iberian cluster even remotely close to north africans. It would be delusional to even think they would, since 4% or 8% ancient dna shared wouldn´t manage to do such.I love how mongrels like you are obsessed with some europeans, (usually with greeks, italians, french or iberians) It's like you don´t wanna be alone in your condition.gain some notion of scale.
>>6305234You are a mutt-blood of Brown, Black, and White(Nordic) people and now amount of cope will change that.
>>6304952Its the same fucking Nafri mutt as always.
>>6305103They are shifted towards the aegean, in line with the J2 Roman age finds. Not north Africa
>>6305427>>6305448cry harder and louder mongrel
>>6305427If that is the case, than you are not even human you Nafri shitter.
>>6305193do I2a and I2b are somewhat connected?
>>6305680I am an almost pure Caucasoid with slight admixture from Euro muttblood. Since i own most of my blood to human, i am salvageable unlike you cavemen>>6305481>closer to African(Maghrebi) than to Finns *chuckles*I'm not the one crying here, mutt ;) You on the hand lol
>>6305756Both are from Mesolithi Iberians and later Iberian farmers.
>>6305782so what they doing on Ukraine?
>>6305775>than to Finns>Finns are the centroid of white europeans.lelyou are indeed crying mutt, because iberians are miles away of north africans genetically and because moors had few to no impact on iberians.
>>6305818Haplogroup I was widespread in Mesolithic Europe. R came from the East.
>>6305842waityou telling me than r come from steppes and beat the shit from spaniards?
>>6305827Cope harder mutt, you're literal halflings, outcasts among your own race. Last time one of you subhuman mongrel went to Russia they saluted him in Arabic. https://youtu.be/opVLKujyq-g?t=448
SOMEONE BREAK IT DOWN FOR. WAre Iberians MOORd or not?
>>6305889They are moor'd and black'd, see >>6304131>>6304136 >>6300317
>>6305775Iberomuttiabs are part yoruba negroid, thats why nafris have dark skin, wide noses and nappy hair
>>6305909>>6305920>>6305888This shitskin trying so hard is even embarrassing.
>>6305868R is from the East. The oldest basal R* was found in Siberia. At some point these people migrated to Europe where they mixed with local hunter-gatherers who had mostly haplogroup I. Then around 6000 BCE farmers from Anatolia came. In some places they mixed with the locals, in others they mixed less. There are some farmers with haplogroup R1b-V88 (old subclade that diverged earlier) and plenty of farmers with haplogroup I2. Then a small group of these R1b/R1a men living in Russian steppes expanded all over the Eurasia. In Britain they killed off the people who built Newgrange and Stonehenge (90% genetic replacement). In Iberia they killed off local farmers and took their women (40% genetic replacement, nearly 100% male replacement), in Central Europe R1a replaced nearly all men and around 70% of the genes. In Central Asia they seem to replace local hunter gatherers (Botai)Later steppe expansions were less devastating, but there was probably still a lot of killing and raping as R1a was absent in Bronze Age India and today it's the most common male haplogroup. It's also very common in South Central Asia and in Iran.
>>6305945wait so R1 are a real snow niggers destroyers of civilization?
>>6305889Basically Iberians are neolithic pop + steppe(desc indo-european tribes) Y dna replaced by them (steppoids). The paper shows pretty much that pre islamic iberians already had some north african aleles or related with neolithic or related with roman and pre roman times. modern iberians have less than ancient ones (probably because of reconquista)Modern iberians are a group of neolithic and yamanya - pre celts and celts. their closest poplations are or north italians or french.
>>6305955They are the Indo-Europeans/Aryans. Their migrations seem to be similar to the Mongol or Hunnic ones. They essentially started steppe nomadic pastoralism and everything related to it - patrilinear system, female exogamy (kidnapping wives from outside your tribe), nomadic way of life, focus on stockbreeding and a very individualistic warrior ethos. The transition from Chalcolithic (copper age) to the Bronze Age (but early proto-Indo-Europeans did not really use bronze) was very violent and changed everything. Communal graves got replaced with individual graves, sedentary villages with nomadic way of life, and so on.
>>6305989holy shietso white man home is Siberia not a Europe but Siberia must be much warmer then yea>?
>>6306003Meet ANE, Ancient North Eurasians, mammoth hunters, mammoths got extinguished allegedly by the end of the Ice Age.
>>6306003No. By the time of the Bronze Age, they weren't very Siberian-like. They were already mixed with local populations. That Siberian guy was 24,000 years old.
>>6306023>yfw when all that hyboreans crap and proto slavs coming out of spaciship crashed in siberia was true
>>6306043>was true They weren't exactly creators of civilizations. Think proto-Mongols in a time when no one had armies or horses. They fucked up a lot of things. You can even say that in a way they created the Bronze Age world (even if they didn't invent bronze). In almost every place when you see some cultural discontinuity you can blame these guys. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutian_peopleVery likely our steppe ancestors. R1b with Yamnaya ancestry was found in Bronze Age North Iran around the time of Gutian arrival. >The Guti proved to be poor rulers. Under their crude rule, prosperity declined. They were too unaccustomed to the complexities of civilization to organize matters properly, particularly in connection with the canal network. This was allowed to sink into disrepair, with famine and death resulting. Thus, a short "dark age" swept over Mesopotamia.
>>6306092And this is the Balkans. It seems like at some point they acquired bronze from bronze using culture from the Caucasus. >The cultures that appeared after about 3800 BCE did not regularly use female figurines in domestic rituals, no longer wore copper spiral bracelets or Spondylus-shell ornaments, made relatively plain pottery in a limited number of shapes, did not live on tells, and depended more on stockbreeding. Metallurgy, mining, and ceramic technology declined sharply in both volume and technical skill, and ceramics and metal objects changed markedly in style. The copper mines in the Balkans abruptly ceased production; copper-using cultures in central Europe and the Carpathians switched to Transylvanian and Hungarian ores about 4000 BCE, at the beginning of the Bodrogkeresztur culture in Hungary (see ore sources in figure 11.1). Oddly this was when metallurgy really began in western Hungary and nearby in Austria and central Europe.8 Metal objects now were made using new arsenical bronze alloys, and were of new types, including new weapons, daggers being the most important. “We are faced with the complete replacement of a culture,” the foremost expert on Eneolithic metallurgy E. N. Chernykh said. It was “a catastrophe of colossal scope … a complete cultural caesura,” according to the Bulgarian archaeologist H. Todorova.9We have genes from Bodrogkeresztur and they don't have steppe admixture, so the relationship between early steppe people and farmers was probably quite complex and there were very likely other factors that caused the collapse of Chalcolithic Balkan cultures. But yeah, for some reason people abandoned tells (which in some places formed pretty big towns - 50-200 houses) and moved to new small villages - 5-10 houses.
>>6306092Is there a yamnaya calculator on any model on gedmatch?
>>6306118Yes.>SteppeYamnaya_Samara --> 1.0Yamnaya_Kalmykia --> 0.996894012579Afanasievo --> 0.996028801469Scythian_Samara --> 0.945593714365Sintashta --> 0.901839538842CWC_Baltic --> 0.87277856866Battle_Axe_Sweden --> 0.86659522357Tajik_Afghanistan --> 0.865028440775Tajik_Tajikistan --> 0.84311825487Beaker_Britain --> 0.832793660244Netherlands_BA --> 0.821748930351Ingrian --> 0.817876442304Finnish_East --> 0.814546921032Tajik_Yagnobi --> 0.814904224005Finnish --> 0.812829958004Karelian --> 0.810970821109Vepsian --> 0.801527025599>OtherSwedish --> 0.769958610255Slovenian --> 0.681742039841Austria --> 0.679149929165Moldovan --> 0.67913004682Kalash --> 0.678800909055Bulgarian --> 0.584153068509Tatar_Lipka --> 0.576513738426Greek --> 0.468524531201Italian_Tuscan --> 0.462783637488Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon --> 0.462627004851
>>6306128Is there a way to figure out how much yamnaya I am? I have my raw data from 23andme loaded on gedmatch.
They seem to be good at adapting stuff and then using it against other. Outside of horse domestication it doesn't seem like they invented anything else. Copper metallurgy came from farmers (which they killed off), bronze from Maykop (which they killed off/displaced), wheel and wheeled vehicles are also found mostly in non-steppe communities (earliest evidence from Europe, earliest wheel from Slovenia, earliest wagon from steppe Maykop with Q). Honestly, they were just violent, genocidal cunts.
>>6306172Seems like being a genocidal cunt is a very good evolutionary strategy. R is today the most common haplogroup in the world.
>>6306172They weren't even the first to use horses. Botai domesticated horses, the PIE either stole a few herds, or got some Botai horsemen to teach them how.
>>6306188I remember seeing a vid on first horse domestication, the dude was like "nah botai were just on some manlet horses, they rode them but tbqh pham PIE wuz kangz of horse domestication" fucking based tbqh
They shaped our entire history. You may not like it, but this is true. Without PIE the world would be a completely different place.
>>6306172literally chads bullying nerds into doing their homework kek
>>6306240Isn't that the history in general? Weak faggots made stuff, nomadic chads invade them, replace their language and/or culture and steal their achievements. Indo-Euros, Arabs, Turks... the list goes on. Hell, this is probably even true for China. Like half of the shit got domesticated in the South, which was later conquered by the North and their Austronesian or Austroasiatic language got completely replaced. And it probably happen because Indo-Euros introduced chariots and bronze to China, lol.
>tfw Ruskies re-enacted the PIE invasion on Europe>women raped>men killed>farmeroid E1b leader shot himself in the head
when do we get the chad WHG vs virgin PIE pic
>>6306290All done by the G2a farmer god of the R1ants.
Oh god, is it the same nafri shitting up this thread? Like is he the same as the guy who thinks that steppeniggeers from 1000 BCE are IVC people? Literally poojet tier delusions.>>6306293I made that reference back when I LARPED as a G2a man. But now I know that I am L1b, so its not funny anymore.
>>6306292WHG got their shit kicked in by farmoids of all people.
>>6306354Nah, WHG joined EEF groups willingly. WHG even cucked the CWC numerous times.
>>6306354despite farmoids being much more superior in number and technology, WHG were pretty much slowly cucking them, look at modern frequency of I1/I2 vs poor G2athey even had a resurgence of their ancestry all the way to the late neolithic, probably because farmoids were getting ravaged by the plague
>>6306432There is more J2 or E1b in Europe than I1/I2.
Are the following White:>Greeks>Egyptians>Moors>Spaniards>Romans>Berbers
>>6305920Iberomaurusians were E-M78, I am E-M183. Cheddar man was a nigger and Malt'a boi was an hapa.
>>6306592Greeks and Spaniards are europeans aka whites:>>6305966And romans were that too.Egyptians or Berbers and Moors were caucasoid semitic or hamitic, but now what people consider white/european.
>>6306512J2 or E1b are not OG farmer lineages, there is little to none of those in neolithic Europe, J2 arrived largely later, E1b-V13 also had a relatively recent boom
>>6306635>Cheddar Man doesn't cluster with Africa population Yoruba or MendeOkay We Wuzzer.
>>6306407>WillinglyNice meme, then why did EEF villages have fortifications specifically made to defend against HG attacks? And on top of that no one gives up their ways of life to incoming invaders. The ENF invasion of Europe was like the Iran_N invasion of south Asia where the indigenous HGs suffered due to the events.
>>6306512I1/I2 were cucking the farmoids in the north while the CHG-derived J2 was cucking farmoids in the south. Based IJ alliance pushing back the G2a menace.
>>6306998He is probably the mentally ill Kurd. Malta boy represents an ANE sample with an unusually high amount of east Eurasian ancestry (and that ancestry came from Onge-like people and not from Han-like people). The ANS (ancestors of ANE) and late ANEs were both well over 70% west Eurasian.
>>6307087Common knowledge that ANE was a Mongoloid-Australoid mix. They were both Onge-like and Han-like. The original ANE of Central Asia might've been Caucasoid, but we don't have any evidence of that yet.
>>6307069They didn't. WHG people routinely joined EEF communities, EEF had massive amounts of WHG blood, and there is no documented violence between WHG tribes and EEF communities.
>>6307242Once again, this is all wishful thinking on your part. And no violence? Are you insane or just a Gimbutas feminist sympathizer? The LBK saw a LOT of violence and potentially even ritualistic cannibalism.
>>6307491LBK was the only culture to have any violence, did not see much violence, the cannibalism isn't ritual, and there were no WHG remains found among them, meaning it's more possible, if still unlikely, they were some WHG tribe's food.
>>6307571Yeah, and that gets rid of your notion of a "peaceful" existence.