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/his/ - History & Humanities


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I have been watching these videos on youtube about the possibility of penetrating or slashing riveted mail with a sword, bow or spear and it really changed my understanding from the Hollywood perception of pre-modern combat were people die left and right by swords and arrows.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydjdBTV8ZbY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw3lcgIAwLk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7rA9YaGhVg

So in summation, penetrating mail directly much less slashing against it, was next to impossible. So this puts the question, how did people die in battle who were equipped in mail armor? We are talking about anywhere from the time of the invention of lorica hamata (also used by the Celts) to the high middle ages. Internal bleeding? During a massive rout? Blunt damage?
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>>6131821
Not everybody was wearing armor, decent chain-mail is expensive even to this day. What armor was available usually didn't cover every part of their body. And even if it did, the blunt force can cause enough internal damage to kill you.
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Be sure to look into how chainmail was made, OP.

The high cost wasnt only because it was all metal, but also because making it is mind boggingly boring
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>>6131821
head trauma, hands/legs cuts and bleeding
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>>6131821
They would've died whilst routing. Getting run down and beaten on by several people with swords, axes, clubs, spears, whilst on the ground.

I don't think a lot of people in armor died during actual fighting in ancient and medieval combat. I think most died when fleeing.
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>>6131981
>>6132013

Well according to most sources, basically all Roman legionaries and even auxiliaries were equipped with at least lorica hamata. For example I am trying to imagine how did those legionaries in all of these Roman civil wars actually kill each other. The most reasonable explanation was that it was quite literally a bashing contest, and the most tired side retreated.
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>>6131821
By hitting you in the neck, also maces and axes exit, as well as spears
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>>6132081

In a standard shield phalanx formation , which is how basically all ancient and medieval infantry fought, you cannot attack the neck with a sword since there in not enough reach. Now with a spear it is possible but we are talking about a very narrow part of the body and that basically you would have to bypass your opponents shield.
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We have the benefit of very high quality material and ideal conditions to recreate mail.

The stuff in thoe days would have been generally of inferior quality in some way or another. If you hit it enough times you'll get a point to bend or go through the armour. More likely however, the loser will be exhausted, fall to the ground and you can take your time in killing him.
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>>6132069
its good protection just not as good as you are imagining think.
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>>6131821
When routing, presumably being crushed by their allies and clubbed to death. While it is hard to penetrate with bladed weapons it isn't impossible to do so. Illness from injuries during battle shouldn't be forgotten as well. While it isn't as bad as some people say in relation to disease you need to remember an army is a large group of people living close together in shitty conditions. People and animals in close proximity, shitty diets, long marches and poor sanitation is no place to have a bandaged limb.
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>>6132110

He makes good points.

Game of Thrones in general has unrealistic everything but the Battle of the Bastards was I thought a very good depiction of what happens when you're surrounded and slowly getting crushed. Theres no where to run to and nothing you can do.
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>>6132094
Spear is scary accurate and fast weapon, even long shafted ones. Bypassing a shield is not a problem.

t. boffer larper
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>>6132069
> Well according to most sources, basically all Roman legionaries and even auxiliaries were equipped with at least lorica hamata.

Scale of production in the Roman Empire was much greater and thus the costs were much lower than in the Medieval Era, allowing even grunt legionaries to be fitted with chainmail armor.
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>>6132169
>Game of Thrones in general has unrealistic everything

Hollywood has no understanding of armor, to them it's just a kewl! costume that provides zero protection.
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>>6133167
Indeed, though Dawn is supposed to be as strong and sharp as Valyrian steel.
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>>6133183

Except the shitty tv show doesn’t even mention that Arthur Dayne has a special (and possibly magical) sword and the same situation applies to all combat scenes; stab or whack a guy in full armor and he instantly dies on the spot, armor is there simply to look kewl! (and frequently not even that…)
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>>6131821

it's fairly easy to put a knife in a dude's neck or eye if you get him on the ground
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>>6133408
the ringmail sweater does it every time
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>>6133408
Is that polyester?



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