How were they treated compared to whites? Post notable non-white Romans
like romans because romans were not white
>>6126446It was like living in a shitty photoshop MS comic.
>>6126457are spaniards european?
>>6126446What the fuck?
There was not a thing like a concept of "whiteness" in those days, it first appeared in the time of the Enlightenment and European colonialism.
>>6126446Well the division of perception by romans in a hierachy doesn't fall into "white" and "non-white" as they didn't have such terms like we know them today.They perceived a people based on their relative level of civilisation.
>>6126446north african and middle eastern had roughly (and still have, despite the massive trans sahran slave trade) the same skin color than southern european. Your white/non white paradigm is really ridiculous and is an anachronism from 19-20th anglo authors.
>>6126462Are you a brainlet?
>>6126493Green is Core EuropeBlue lacks western intellectual and religious tradition but has enough connection to European civilization to reasonably classify them as European
>>6126525>it's only Europe if i like it
>>6126548There are good reasons to consider that the demarcation linehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clash_of_Civilizations
>>6126555Why is Turkey and Israel included
>>6126525>when you let /pol/ teach you about the world
>>6126616Ashkenazi Jews have a large amount of European admixture (genetically pretty close to Italians)Turkey owns a part of continental Europe, has a latin-based alphabet and is integral to European history
Wow /his/ really is as bad as everyone says. "No such thing as white!" isn't an argument, my friends.
>>6126623Why include georgia and armenia
>>6126629They are Orthodox Christians and part of the European continent
>>6126628But it is?Find me an example of romsns classifying all of europe as white and everyone else non white
>>6126630>part of the European continentWhat's that?
>>6126616Because the author is a "cold war ended, so history is over" kind of idiot. The book is from 1996, he has been proven wrong by current events and the return to ideology, and if he was still alive he'd admit that liberal democracy hasn't "won" worldwide, and not all the major powers are agreeing that liberal democracy is best.Basically an outdated book, that was outdated 5 years after print, with the rise of Vladimir Putin and the growth of China.
>>6126631Pretty sure Cato the Censor and Tactitus said explicitly that easterners were degenerate and foreign and Germans were noble yet savage
>>6126636Pretty sure neither said any such thing, and that roman citizens of the eastern provinces had by fat superior standing in roman society than german wildlings.
>>6126636This is supposed to be a good thing? The French called the English degenerate and native Americans noble savages, doesn't indicate their views of civilisational superiority.And that doesn't answer the question
>>6126453*Blocks your path
>>6126446Where are the G*rmanics in that image? It is they who caused the most havoc in the late empire, not shitskins
>>6126636Romans thought the Germans were backwards savages but nice try.
>>6126656So not actually based on geography?
>>6126661Did someone change his eye colour
>>6126644Because of money, but there are always examples of Romans glorifying Germans as a literary device. For example, Seneca writes about revolutionary suicide during the reign of Nero and he tells the story of a German who is condemned to die in the arena and instead of allowing Rome to take enjoyment from his death, goes into the toilet (only place he is allowed to be alone), takes the sponge & stick used to clean shit off your ass and shoves it down his neck, choking to death. And Seneca says that in that moment, he attained the same level of glory and dignity as Cato the Younger when he failed his suicide, put his organs back in his body, and committed suicide again to spite Caesar.
>>6126689There are examples of americans glorifying red indians or africans as a literary device. There are examples of literal vegetables being glorified as heroes in cartoons or books. Doesn't mean shit, and its definitely not enough to base some retarded SVPERIOR RACe bullshit on.
>>6126457Oh, so you mean the middle east territories? Probably depends on how long it's been since the last rebellion.
>>6126715I think you've built up a stereotype of a certain person I am in your mind and are talking to that person rather than me
>>6126689The Romans as a whole considered Germanics as barbaric and inferior. One writer doesn't change that. A barbarian who didn't reside in the Empire or even have a written language would absolutely not be considered some superior person.
>>6126719I think you've built an imaginary idea of what "europe" is, not consisted with geography or politics or culture, and who the european is that inhabits that imaginary land. If you want to go by civilization, then the Mediterranean basin is its own cosmos, and the north a different thing. Germans and romans are farther apart than romans and north africans in almost all points of prehistory and history, on almost any metric.
>>6126725Yes but they also repeatedly identified them with ancient Roman virtues.Its not as simple as what you suggest
>>6126728And what evidence do you have of that?
>>6126730You mean like they did with Hannibal, and with Attila?
>>6126734I studied history in highschool. You should do that too.
>>6126735They respected Hannibal for his generalship but not for ancient roman virtue. I take it you have never actually read any of the literature or writings that comes down from antiquity.
>>6126636In a sense that we idealize American Natives.
>>6126737I studied history and classics at a premier institution. I can tell you didn't because if you did, you wouldn't have such a dismissive attitude to certain basic things I am pointing out.
>>6126743They wrote him a backstory about his dad swearing a blood oath to destroy Rome, bathing his babies in a bull's blood, etc. They definitely fetishized him same as many germans. It was just romans jerking off, projecting who they want to be onto every enemy that defeated them. Literally the "noble savage" myth of its day.
>>6126747No if you read the texts the noble savage narrative of the Europeans re: Native Americans and then Romans re: Germans, the type of allegories and allusions they use are significantly different.
>>6126728The ancient romans considered the Nordics as atlantic supermen who built Atlantis and furthered the cause of civilization before their land was destroyed by catastrophe.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuMeJTp8GOw
>>6126495>>6126499>>6126522This is leftist revisionism. Ignore these posts
>>6126761>when your history knowledge comes form a terrorist on welfare
>>6126770>leftistIn what way?
>>6126764NO THIS CANNOT BE
>>6126764This is leftist revisionism. Ignore this post. Germans were space elves and romans knew.
>>6126783>dude racism didn't exist
>>6126525Hungary, an uralic steppe nigger nation, is core european .
>>6126796But it did, g*rms were considered animals. We know today they are just autistic people.
>>6126764based Vitruvius, g*rmans are still like that
>>6126764Reminder that Julian is a /pol/ hero lmao
>>6126764This is true, the civilized It*lian and *frican shakes in the presence of the GERMANIC BVLL
>>6126882Do you think Germanics back then had their equivalent of Kara boğa turkposting?
>>6126457Then why do you say Egyptians were white?
>>6126764"Africans' in this case would have only been people from pic related. Also compared to Italians, Germans and Anglo are slow. Italians are highest IQ Europeans. Also I doubt "aryan" was used.
>>6126910Cold winters theory out the window
>>6126764b-but muh bloo eyes
>>6126890Do you really expect the GERMAN MAN to JUST deal with r*Man slavery medboi? Yes, he will deal with it when he BREEDING olive med women while the medboi is busy counting the number of siestas he takes in a day.
>>6126910Aryan might refer to scythiansI think Herodotus used it to refer to northern Iranic peoples
Someone explain why Egyptians and Ancient Indian Aryans are taken as white when white is defined as "EUROPEAN"
>>6126495This. And Hitler
>>6126914Eh the cold winter theory is and was always iffy. Like cold weather does result in larger brains but that is due to a higher number of the "anti-freeze cells" to protect neurons from the cold weather or something. Still, the Italian 102 IQ measurement doesn't seem quite right considering that pretty much every "aryan country" does better than Italians on PISA tests. I think the old Italian IQ was just estimation based on guesses. Oh and for the record, most notable German cities and towns are well above 100 in the IQ measurement https://www.presseportal.de/pm/116734/3410165
>>6126764norcucks BTFO by Med BVLL
>>6126636Germans were lowlives. Deal with it
>>6126947Those are mainly memes. Most aryans mixed with onge-like abos, so people with high steppe + south caspian (IVC) and a low Onge ancestry would be rare. God, imagine what it would be like if the steppe people just bred with the IVC ruling (non-native) class instead. Most of India would be Pashtun/Kalash-like in terms of appearance then.
>>6126950I was just referring to the pseudoscientific nonsense postulated by Richard Lynn stating that Northern Europeans are genetically predisposed to be more intelligent because they supposedly had higher selection for intelligence.It's just ironic that the ancient romans on the same basis thought the exact opposite (both without any actual evidence of course) and most interestingly, the fact that according to a readjusted 2012 study of IQ by Lynn, Spain and western Turkey have a higher IQ than Ireland and the same IQ as Russia and Denmark whilst spain and turkey are among the warmest countries in west eurasia
>>6126966> Most of India would be Pashtun/Kalash-like in terms of appearance then.So still shitskins? inb4 cherrypicking
>>6126630>part of the European continentActually they aren't.
White = European or European descent.Turkey, Georgia and Armenia= Not European. Armenia is not even geographically in Europe. Georgia and Turkey have an extremely tiny territory in Europe. Even fucking Kazakhstan has a larger territory in Europe than those two countries.
>>6126661>eyebrows met>curly hair>dark eyesthis is the description of Augustus by ancient historians , so , he wasn't white either
>>6126999What is "geographically europe"It doesn't posses any typical continental boundaries and is part of the Eurasian tectonic plate
>>6126999Explain why Egypt was white then.
>>6126977Well, they certainly are lighter than Melanesian-like Onges (such as most modern Indians), though even the Kalash and Pashtuns have a higher Onge-like admixture than most of the known IVC_related samples, so I guess they would have a higher incidence of skin darkening alleles than the migrant IVC population.Also, technically the PIE were "shitskins" as well and wouldn't get lighter until they breed funnel-beaker women.
>>6127008Europe ends in Urals.
>>6126999What about North Africa?You always claim north africa as white. How come they look white but aren't?What about the moors? Were they white?>>6126977Yes the Indus valley civilization was shitskin. So was Egypt but that doesn't stop you from calling both of those white.Apparently white doesn't mean European to you.
>>6127015What part of Russia does Europe end.
>>6126975He may have a point about selection, however it is incredibly easy to increase the average IQ of low IQ groups by just selecting the upper 50% of the population for reproduction while sterilizing the bottom 50%. So, the IQ value itself is obviously not a long term constant.
>>6126910Highest IQ Euros are Ashkenazi though they share similar genetic to Italians.
>>6127009Who the fuck considers Egyptians white? Ancient Egyptians didn't just disappear when arabs conquered them. They simply got assimilated. Modern Egyptians are same as ancient Egyptians.
>>6127034/pol/ says Egyptians were white. So basically you say Egyptians are white.
>>6126446You probably would call ancient Romans non-white. >134 genomes, spanning 12000s BP to >Renaissance and enlightenment. 0.5-3.5X >coverage.>UPPER PALEOLITHIC>All WHG>NEOLITHIC>Mostly EEF, some WHG. Some Iran_N, quite a >significant quantity, as much as WHG. PCA >position Between Sardinia and Maltese, east of >Sardinia, closer to Sardinia than to Maltese. >Very homogeneous.>BRONZE AGE (EARLY)>Overlaps modern-day Sardinia, Iran_N >percentage declines, WHG and EEF increases.>IRON AGE TO REPUBLICAN PERIOD (700-20BC)>Fewer samples, of those that exist 60% overlap >with North Italy, 40% overlap with South Italy >and Sicily, centroid of overall cluster in central >Italy but no samples occur there, very wide >spread.>EHG appears, Levant N Appears for the first >time, sporadic and inhomogeneous distribution, >Iran_N increases further.>IMPERIAL PERIOD>Dense cluster centroid between Greeks, >Cypriots, South Italians/Sicilians, and Syrians, >closest to Sicilians. Long tail stretching from >central cluster to Syrians and Iraqi Jews. Couple >of Northern-shifted samples overlapping N Italy, >France, Spain.>Iran_N increases further, Levant N again >sporadic and inhomogeneous.>LATE ANTIQUITY>Tight cluster centroid in S Italy, in the same >place as in the previous period. Southern tail to >Middle East disappears. N Italian, Northern >European and NW European outliers exist.>AFTER>Resemble modern central Italians.
>>6127024>He may have a point about selectionUnlikey but perhaps, like most racialists however he makes many unsubstantiated assumptions and non sequitur conclusions and his theory has met with a lot of criticismhttps://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/unique-everybody-else/201211/cold-winters-and-the-evolution-intelligence%3famp
>>6127020Geographically urals. But Siberia and Far East are mostly populated by slavs and other Europeans who settled there either willingly or by force.
>>6127033>Highest IQ Euros are Ashkenazithey aren't Europeans but Asiatics.
>>6127045Ancient Romans were whiter than your entire genome.Stop posting leftist revisionism.Stop apologising for shitskin civilizations.
>>6127060Exactly. They are shitskins even though their skin is white.Race is deeper than skin except when my racist brain says so
>>6127060They are heavily mixed with Euros and are genetically very similar to Italians and Sicilians.
>>6127057Asians are white though because they suck our cocks after we beat them in world war 2 right. And their women are cheaply imported as wives. Long live the white race.
>>6126446There were no non-whites in the Roman Empire. This is what the average ancient MENA looked like
>>6127084Sicilians are shitskins and hitler is turning in his grave because they still haven't been gassed yet
>>6127091If you're European you're white. Doesn't matter how dark your skin is. We learn that stuff at /pol/. You're nothing but a liberal shitskin
>>6126796You're retarded. Concepts analogous to racism (viewing certain ethnic groups as unclean, backwards etc.) certainly existed, but the concept of whiteness was absent. Most notable Romans were what we would today call white because most white people populated most regions of the empire. There were important non-whites though, North Africans and Semitic people mostly, who were not discriminated against because they weren't white (though may have suffered other discrimination). There are even a couple emperors who were semetic or berbers.
>>6127073>whiterIf by whiter you mean more Middle Eastern then yes.
except that there were no difference between them ?!
Romans imported millions of slaves to Italy from all over the world. ITALIANS ARE MONGRELS!
>>6127056True, his science is very iffy, but it just comes across as more of a rushed science piece published to gain notoriety than outright prejudice to me desu.
The ancient romans left paintings and murals of themselves. They look pretty much similar to what people in that region look like today. Certainly not either aryan nordic or subsaharan or whatnot.
>>6127097>Dude Romans were color blind
Northern Italians- Mix of gauls, Etruscans and Umbrians.Central Italians- Probably the closest descendants to Romans.South Italians- Greeks, Samnites, Arabs, Oscans, Normans etc.. True mutts.
>>6127107It's irrelevant. I find it really bizarre how a scientist can publish stuff like this.
>>6127102Kys wh*toid. Ottomans raped your wh*te twink peach asses.You don't even know what wh*te is. But we do, and we aren't wh*te
>>6127109As a wise man once said- there are the Nordic regions and there is sub-saharan Africa, and then there is everything in between which is a battleground for afrocentrists and nordicists.
>>6127120But /pol/ said if you're born in any European country you are white...
>>6127107Apparently he does hold controversial opinions on race based immigration controlhttps://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Richard_LynnInb4>rationalwiki
>>6127128It's pretty clear what is white and what is black.Everything the ottomans hated is wh*te, the rest is black.
>>6127123You will find a lot worse, trust me. Just look at the orthodox "reality is subjective" quantum mechanics and the new informational theoretic BS. Meanwhile legit proposals like objective randomness or non-local hidden determinism are barely noticed.
>>6127109>Certainly not either aryan nordic or subsaharan or whatnot.Even though we're talking about averages, there would still be quite a few from both. Rome loved to import foreign slaves and had no problem interbreeding with them.
If you're not a muslim you are a wh*te subhuman. Simple as that
>>6127135Wh*te americans who cared about their """"""culture""""" and """""sophistication""""" and RACE, also somehow bred with their slaves turning their slaves wh*te with every generation till eventually their slaves would be indistinguishable from themselves and the rest of the would laugh as these subhuman wh*toids
>>6126764Based Rome dabbing on nordic savages
>>6127133I don't know about this stuff, but I've read some Lynn papers and he is wrong about so many things. Every time he tries to explain something with genetics, history or paleontology he is wrong.
>>6127131>This work has led him to the conclusion that Sub-Saharan African countries have average IQ scores of below 70, an estimate that has been heavily criticized because of his unsystematic methodology. Oh boy.
>>6126446Depends on the province and the rank in society you had. Most provinces were pretty monoracial, and so race didn't cause a lot of issues. The biggest racial blowups were based on cultural clash or conquest before race itself, like the Judea revolts or the constant Gallic wars. Gauls were probably mistreated during times of war, and there were racial biases people perceived (like anyone east of Greece being effeminate philosophers), but the only race that was seen as dominant were the Italians, because they were the leaders/rulers. Over the Empire's lifespan, however, that distinction faded as more outsider Emperors ruled, and citizenship spread from Italian homelanders only to everyone in the Empire. Racism existed, and you wouldn't see Africans or Gauls or Syrians in charge if an Italian could take the job instead, but the Empire didn't operate on ethnostatism as their ideal, they operated on monoculturalism. If you acted like a Roman, paid taxes and didn't act degenerate, you were Roman.
>>6126764To this day, Italy has the highest IQ in all of Europe (not like IQ isn't a meme, but it's still funny).
>>6127230This is not true. Finland/Estonia have the highest.
>>6127119You still don't get it. Of course they noticed skin color. But they didn't believe that white skin meant anything special. Picts would have been seen as a lower order of people than Syrians, even though they have whiter skin.The fact is people didn't use to base their bigotry purely in skin color or at least Romans didn't make any note of the difference in skin color between Italians, Semites and Berbers.
>>6127230Italy is filled with shitskin Sicilians
Romans probably didn't understand the concept of whiteness. Some of their emperors were from the middle east.
Romans were definitely racist against gauls. They saw them as savages, and were outraged when Gauls were allowed in the Senate.
>>6127266And the middle east was European at that point.
>>6126764Saved for later, thank you
>>6127282It wasn't. >>6127285Another meme book written by an idiot.
>>6127281Were Gauls like the blacks of Rome? Did some rare and random Roman cucks invite a Gaulish bvlls to fuck their wives?
>>6127034>Modern Egyptians are same as ancient Egyptians.eh no, they have significantly more SSA admixture than their ancestors
>>6127045>Mostly EEFwow so they were at least as white as Sardinians
>All this mena cope yikes...
Privileged. Whites were the minority during those times.
>>6126457So what am I then? My whole country is European and most of us are swarthier than Syrians and Jews. Fuck you with this rewriting of history. Fuck your racism and take your white and shove it up your pasty white buttocks.
>>6128469t. seething jew
>>6126770You brainlet neonazis are too stupid to be effective propagandists. Everyone sees right through you.
>>6126620>considers Italy, Greece, and Spain White>it's /pol/!wait what?
>>6127406>It wasn'tYes it was. Levant had been Greek for 300 years when Romans conquered it
>>6127045need more geographic info
>>6126525>the balkans aren’t european >literally the original definition of europe This map is core western/peripheral western rather than core/peripheral europe
>>6128645That doesn't mean the people living there were like Greeks.
>>6126446>>6126457Most of the European empire was Italians, Greeks, and Spaniards, who are all sort of "swarthy" and tanned to the point that people on 4chan argue about whether or not they actually count as white. The whitest people in the empire were probably the germanic barbarians and I don't think the Romans generally liked them that much.
>>6128696lmao seething serboid buttblasted that his shithole country is blue instead of green
>>6128783>copeIt's reality. And looking at ancient DNA ancient Greek seem to be more Middle Eastern or Farmer than modern ones anyway.
>>6127001>he never sees a curly hair white guy
>>6126446The thing about the Roman Empire is that all its citizens had the same right wherever they came from, in fact, people from the east were seen as more civilized than the barbarians from Britannia or Germania
>>6127073Why are you obsessed with changing the past?
>>6126446Far right mutt is clearly Egyptian
>>6126446Romans weren't white. The only white people of Rome were English and French, as well as the occasional barbarians.
>>6127129>if you're born in any European country you are white...>if you belong to this social construct your skin color is white no matter what color is your skinPeak /pol/ indeed
>>6131653Maybe take a look at the busts of all the roman emperors
>>6131653>t. Pierre Smith
italians are whitet. italian
>>6126656>Novaya Zemlya>EuropeanFucking kekSuck it up you babby, your "continent" has no geological basis and is a peninsula of the continent of Asia
>>6126628My wall is white, my hand is more simmiliar to cream, than white. Almost everyone in that thread is colorblind.Only people pale enough to be considered white european, are scandinavians, brits, and irish.
>>6131678Anyone who looks remotely white is closer related to other whites than to any black african
>>6131653>he thinks alll Romans look like Sicilian Sw*rthoids
>>6131672Yellow isn't white
>>6131702>he was short of stature, his eyebrows met, complexion between dark and fair
>>6126499This. Kinda hard to be racist against "non-whites/non-europeans" when tons of barbarians were "white/european" and plenty of "non-whites" were more advanced and civilized
>>6131672That's a nice cute feminine wrist. Are you the guy who can't build muscle?
>>6131717>he had clear bright eyes>his hair was slightly curly and inclined to golden Literally from the same source, why would you leave that out I wonder?
>>6128825>We wuz Greeks
>>6126661legit reconstruction based on pigment (and not nordicist wewuzkangeries) here
>>6127254Found the American who watched the Sorpanos and is now an expert about anything inherent to Italy
>>6128825When it's not a cucked nordickcist snow ape claiming the greeks it's some ME/NA subhuman sand apeFuck off, Greeks are largely unchanged since Minoan times and they received no major migration until modern era, even slavic influence was fairly limited and steppe admixture does not go beyond 20% at best