So is Vulkan ever going to actually be used for anything or is it another dead amdrone pipe dream?
Some games are using it, that's all I can really say about it right now.
>>71834232But it was supposed to completely revolutionize the industry and double the performance of amd graphics cards. It was posted about constantly here a few years ago as the next big thing. What happened?
>>71834186Nvidia cuda is industry standard , you can link up to 16 tesla in one server how awesome is that.
>>71834186I fucking hate this piece of shitLiterally killed any possibility of AMD unfucking their opengl drivers
>>71834282Devs are lazy.Ones that implement it well, see Doom, got considerable performance increases, even on nVidia hardware.
>>71834186MPVBunch of emulators (psp/wii/ps3/xbox/etc)I use these frequently already.
>>71834282it did drastically improve performance on most games it's used on, but since it's different from what everyone is already used to (directx) and isn't compatible with consoles nobody in the industry uses it by default
>>71834186ive used it on tons of games. where have you been? also i think dx12 will perform similar functions to vulkan so its no longer necessary for amd or anyone.
>>71834186didn't nvidia also see improvements using it as well as amd? seems to me more companies should be using it if both gpus are getting more out of it.
Revolutionized Linux gaming. Steam support for Windows titles uses a DirectX->Vulcan layer.
>>71834343>Tons of gamesName 5 that natively support vulcan.
>>71834186People forget that it took around 5 years for Dx11 to really be widely adopted even though it was substantially better then Dx9. Shit, some small games are STILL pushed out at Dx9 to this day.Adoption of any new API is slow at best.
>>71834186Most IdTech games uses it. I believe Epic Games doesn't put it in Unreal because they may get a lot of money from Microsoft and Nvidia to care about that.
>>71834374Yeah dxvk is fucking based
>>71834532>It's deadLincux btfo
>>71834515Doom used it, benchmark of the singularity used it. That's all I can think of.
>>71834434DoomQuakeRise of the Tomb RaiderMad MaxJackie Chan
>>71834515>It can't be that it's a sidegrade at best from dx12 for an incredible amount of effort. It must be a conspiracy of companies bribing each other.
>>71834326>real-time 3d rendering>must be gaemsobsessed
vulkan and dx12 are similar.all vulkan compatible:unrealfrostbiteid tech 6,7unitycry engine 5
>>71834186Dx9-12 is already being translated to vulkan so it is the only api you need.
>>71834341>isn't compatible with consolesWat
>>71834186More importantly shit devs needs to start working on multi-gpu support so we can get chiplet gpus.
>>71834282Its a pain in the ass to program and almost forces you to use c++ and vs due to longass(50chars+) names and constant allocation.
>>71834829dx9 too? would source games ever be supported i dream in silence.
Emulation? Cemu is getting Vulkan support "soon"
>>71835360The dumb naming shit is far worse in the c lib for it than the c++ lib, but all the tutorials use the c library still.
>>71834186Emulators and games use it, more so than DX12.
Works wonders for Beetle PSX HW.
>>71834341It's compatible with consoles, fact is the new generation encourages use of Vulkan over DX and XGL because Navi does better with it. Some consoles games actually use it too on current gen consoles.
>>71835408vukan on a source engine game? can you stop being retarded, valve would have to work for that to ever happen, they're too busy counting their steam paychecks.
>>71834608>sidegrade>many features of DX12 are locked due to no Shader Model 6.0 being released.
>>71834282It did. It will take another 10 years for it to become de-facto though. >>71834317That's a good thing. OpenGL is legacy shit. >>71834434>>71834186https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulkan_(API)#Gameshttps://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/List_of_Vulkan_gamesDon't forget emulators, everything from Switch to PS3. Also don't forget DXVK, best thing to happen to Linux gaming in a while.
>>71834886Xbox is directx.Current gen sony is proprietary but its most similar to directx.Only the Nintendo switch supports vulkan.
>>71835408Yeah, DXVK and D9VK.
>>71835559PS4 is GNMX and lower level GNM.Both PS4 and Xbox support Vulkan natively. Both use AMD GPUs, upcoming generation will be the same, but with even more focus on Vulkan, I'd say the PC ports will all have Vulkan support because of that too (of console Vulkan games).
>>71835408https://github.com/Joshua-Ashton/d9vkThe dev wants to merge it to DXVK and also do dx8 eventually. Maybe ddraw too.
>>71835491They're both pretty much the same, still both are unmanageable and unusable.The validation layer bullshit only adds to the injury by being the most retardedly complex bullshit ever, even pajeet level copypasting is more elegant than that and they parade it as if its the best solution
>>71834186your posting of this thread makes you a moron
>>71835594>>71835568is there a video any footage of D9VK working stably?
>>71835549The DXVK dev is actually getting paid by valve now. The D9VK guy might also be on valve money injection based on the rate of the development.
>>71834186I use it with mpv. Much better performance than opengl.
>>71835652Literally like a hundred vids on youtube.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fri2Ko-t-ZoThe most recent version from few days ago can play almost anything. I think some fixed function lighting stuff is still in development.
>>71835711does vulkan even give it better performance?
>>71835652https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V58bfGoOWToIt's already better than """native""" ""ports"".
>>71834578Any of these any good?
>>71835770Compared to what? It's way faster than wined3d.
>>71835593I have to imagine with all the talk of next gen console performance, they're using vulkan and just haven't announced it yet
>>71835360wow, you're forced to use a performant language that you were going to use to make the fucking game anywayoh no.nooooo...>>71834186if I weren't a lazy cunt. OpenGL my prior engine was getting something like 40fps because OpenGL is absolute cancer for organizing drawcalls in any sane manner, on vulkan with the same setup I was getting ~200-400 fps. new card I have to cap fps because it's over 2k.
>>71834305>vulkan thread>starts talking about opencl vs cudawhy?
>>71834608why you downplaying it vs directx so much? directx is proprietary microsoft shit that the game devs and the game users have zero input on. software devs want this, it unhitches another major chunk of software from some mostly uncaring corporation's hands and puts its future in the hands of those who give a fuck to advance and use it for greatness instead of slowing milking money with it.
>>71835408>>71835594could this possibly have any implication of making classic games run better on classic hardware?
>>71836104You fucking nigger, are you missing the point on purpose? The point of having a C API is to be able to easily USE C. Its much much simpler to write an FFI using plain C than it is using C++ which they are pushing real hard due to the validation bullshit being C++ only because the lunarg niggers cant live without std::vector for allocations.In the past you could just write a prototype in a few lines of ogl, with Vulkan? More like 2k+ lines for a fucking quad on screen 80% of those being fucking error handling.
>>71835445Back burner. This would boost AMD GPU performance considerably.
>>71834456And you wonder why? DX11 is compared to DX9 undocumented piece of shit. Not even speaking about DX12. If you want to learn DX11 or DX12, you might as well just learn Vulkan. When it comes to industry, that's different story.
Vulkan is fine for ports, meh for everything else
>>71834802Godot is getting Vulkan support in 4.0 hopefully. Big chunk of work is already done. I doubt it will encourage people to create 3D games in that engine though.
>>71836612Good. Fuck C.
>>71836516>Software devs want vulkanThen why aren't they using it?
>>71834186playstation essentially guarantees Vulkan development.At the moment some studios are switching over and some are struggling with it and stuck with OpenGL.No Man's Sky actually sees massive performance gains from the beta Vulkan client in most cases.
>>71836778because big businesses dont operate on a whim like theyre just posting on 4chan
>>71836778I know Studio Wildcard dropped their Vulkan and DX12 development because none of them have any idea how either work.
>>71836467Probably a retard who inserts himself into subjects he doesn't even have a cursory understanding of.>>71834282It didn't because it's got problems. It's a bad compromise according to many. It's of course nice to get more low level access but it's got limits.They're working on it though. I just don't trust Khronos to actually churn out something really good. Committees make that impossible.
>>71837015Yes it's well known fact that gaming industry is full of incompetent idiots.
>>71836778Can't justify the extra development time. Need lower resource demand? Just drop the resolution on some assets. Much faster than optimizing code.
>>71837079Judging a group by their worst members (they're practically as good as asset flippers) isn't fair.But yes they're clearly awful. The switch release is practically a scam. Contrast with something like claybook.https://twitter.com/SebAaltonen/status/1076765876148490240
>>71837149What do you mean? You have very few good examples but other than that most games are unoptimized pieces of crap without any value. I'm not surprised bunch of retards can't learn Vulkan.
It seems like if I was working on a commercial game the last thing I would want to do is waste time with low level hardware access trying to reinvent the wheel. Maybe in another 10 years vulkan will have a bunch of drop in modules to handle that shit and it will be more convenient to actually use.
>>71837211>I want to work on game>I'm not willing to learn low level programmingSpeaks for itself.
>>71837211>>71837067You guys are getting it wrong, its not that lowlevel hardware is bad its just that the ammount of code that takes to get there is greater than the actual render code add the error handling and the boilerplate exceeds the actual code like 4:1.And its not even that advanced, most vulkan "optimization" lies in baking the pipelines and syncing memory so you get near 0 cpu use but to get there you need to make a ton of structs that all have very similar very long names.Instead I would've had a single big array of parameters and addresses, much simpler than the nightmare that is vulkan.
>>71837208The people who made ark are awful.>the industry is full of people who don't careIt's filled with people who set their targets low so they don't have to care. But the cases you're talking about like PUBG are not that common. Not if we're counting games with any measure of success. Of course there's also countless children (>>71837211) who just make shit for fun and pretend that it's real games.I don't believe the games industry is worse than software in general. Just now when I went to search for that Twitter post it took Twitter 5 seconds to open and another 3 for posts to show (and you can't click the search icon while waiting). If we extrapolate that to game performance it would probably be a 1 minute render per frame. It's just more visible when game devs fuck up.To say that it's 'unoptimized shit' just ignores their relative performance.Of course I agree that almost everyone could be better. Games like doom proves that.
>>71834322thislook at sli supportdevs want maximum output for minimal inputwhy go through all the trouble when it works good enough on single card along with the same api that has been used for agesall the new rtx meme features will end up just like the rest
>>71837229Yes welcome to game development since the first commercial engines were released.>>71837293Fucking nobody cares about optimization except neckbeards who jerk off over software minimalism. You don't have to like it but don't pretend it's not reality.>>71837261That was my pointMore workSome performance enhancementNo software company is going to pay to write 4x as much code unless they will sell 4x as many games. Consumers don't really care how optimized software is as long as it works.
>>71837211the very reason why vulkan was made was to get rid of abstraction in order to grant lower lever acess to hardware. so developers can make better optimized games for better performance. i dont think they will do a 180 after going to the job of doing this
>>71837393>Fucking nobody cares about optimization except neckbeards who jerk off over software minimalism. You don't have to like it but don't pretend it's not reality.Have you played No Man's Sky at launch? or Ark at any point?Optimization is kindof a big deal, at least once it's to the point where it performs the way you would expect it to on the hardware you have.Instead, 4K cards become 1080p cards when running Ark.
>nobody cares about optimizationWhat a joke.There are thousands of presentations made by employees of AAA companies, talking about different kinds of optimizations for all kinds of systems.Actual engine devs do care, and they make no secret about it.
>>71837393Optimization is the key thing in game development and actually it doesn't matter if you write it all from scratch or use game engine. Badly optimized games mean that devs are either too stupid to make game in the first place or just too lazy, there is no other excuse in times when everything is pretty much standard, Vulkan included. That initialization code you are all complaining about is reason why you have engines you dumb fucks. No company is going to re-write that piece of code with every game.>error handling is bad>lower access to hardware is bad>proper initialization/config is badBunch of C monkeys coding in obsolete language are batthert because OpenGL has good successor.
>>71837563>error handling is at least 2x+ the size of your render code>good
>>71837606Why you would need more render code? Having good error handling makes good sense to me, rather than doing it all DX way, with assert macros everywhere.
Vulkan is one step forward and and two punches in the nuts.It should exist, and was necessary, but it just turned out shit.The api is garbage, bloaty and hard to get into. But I guess I will still probably still port my engine to vulkan.It can't be helped.
>>71837629The fact that you would need error handling that is more than twice your actual working code is madness, I mean how can you reason such notions its beyond me. Ok, in ogl it was hidden from you but then I guess it means that gpu and their drivers are a mess beyond repairing.
>>71837629this guy complains about if err != nil
>>71837675Because you want to handle errors, why is it so hard concept to understand? Too hard task for you? Maybe you should write scripts instead.
right now, more games support vulkan (56) than dx12 (47). and on top of that, all vulkan games actually gain fps, unlike some dx12 implementations (that are not done by microsoft) where the fps is less than that of dx11https://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/List_of_Vulkan_gameshttps://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/List_of_DirectX_12_games
>>71837705Why the hell would there be errors if you program correctly?I get memsyncing but thats easy to handle, nothing on the level of retarded that is vulkan. The API just sucks ass and Khronos did a terrible job, if it had been 1k loc of total setup it would've been perfectly fine since most of the work comes in organizing your pipeline and submission schedule but thats it
i can't even get the lunarg sdk compiling because it uses cmake, whose dependency checking is invariably broken
>>71837801>Why the hell would there be errors if you program correctly?You never did low level programming, right?
>>71837801seems talented developers, such as the team from the Dolphin Emulator, seem to disagree and have no issues with Vulkan implementatiomget guud
>>71837801don't check for errors then
>>71837828I'm porting my engine in x64, thats why I complain its not C, you retard.
>>71837831Vulkan isn't the most brilliant solution and it's pretty complex but complaining about error handling code is just braindead even as a joke.
>>71837844Why are you wasting time with game engines when you are C boomer and you don't think about possible issues? I'm telling you, pick up Lua and do some scripts. You can make your useless platformer even in game maker.
>>71837872Not everybody who writes gl does games, maybe when you get older you'll get it.
it's being used in engines. i don't know what you expect.
>>71837801>we really want more control with our API that'd be cool<ok guys no problem>wtf, now we have to do error handling are you out of your mind?
>>71837892Then stick to gl, render your stupid textured cube and shut up.
/g/ sure is fucking angry about everything
>>71837913No need to get MAD friend
>>71837901>most of the problems lie in cpu gpu sync which GL unknowingly fucked up by design due to being 20 years old patched to hell and back>here now you have to deal with our structural mistakes instead of writing something that wont get replaced on the first chance available>good
google stadia is going to be based on vulkan which should act as a big boost to the API even if short lived
>>71836778I assume they get support from ms13 and nvidia if you're implementing directx but you're on your own if you're going vulkan.
>>71838068>streaming gameplayit will fail
>>71838068Are they going to pay all these big game publishers to rewrite their games in vulkan? I guess if stadia becomes popular (it won't) that could help expand support.
>>71838155>even if short lived
>>71835898Doom 2016 is amazing
>>71837926be a nigger somewhere else
As someone trying to optimize an application for Oculus Quest it improved benchmarks with some tradeoffs. It's still immature and support is being added slowly.
>>71834186Same as DX12. It was supposed to change the way games work, but it turned out to be utter fucking shit.
>>71839003>Same as DX12. It was supposed to change the way games work, but it turned out to be utter fucking shit.It's just game devs being idiots as usual. Before vulkan they were screeching it's too hard to make good console ports because draw calls are costly on dx11 and openGL. As soon as they got low level APIs it's too hard and they never talk about it anymore.
>>71834186It's an AWFUL API.Compare it to Direct3d 12 or Metal, two other low level APIs, or even fucking WebGPU, it's AWFUL.You need to write like a thousand fucking lines of setup shit before you even get to write your first shader. None of this is necessary.
>>71834186At least it's better and more implemented than memes like physx, dlss and goytracing.
>>71838155>>streaming gameplay>it will failThey went full amd, not intcel+nshittia silly!
>>71834282the vast difference between dx11 and vulkan is the fact that nvidia cant fucking slap their shit on vulkan therefore they cant pay the devs to do their job for them
>>71834186When used the performance gains are huge . Sad that devs are lazy cunts
>>71834186Default renderer on Android Q and optional renderer on Android P.
>>71834186I think industry a) takes year to complete or switch engines/implementations of API b) with ray tracing coming, it doesn't make sense to built new stable grounds already. Also open source AI, open source Physics engine is still in the works. LLVM is rumoured to be replaced by even newer shader languages (actually it cooks them in certain ways but nvm the point)My bet 2-3 generations of GPUs supporting ray tracing will set new grounds for new engines, as for now developer have already their hands busy - new consoles coming, HDR implementation (many games just convert SDR to HDR and that's it, cool HDR), FP16 shaders, checkerboard/upscale/dynamic resolution reducing stutter, Tensor cores. compute/shade balance, compute AA/sharpener (DLSS and surprisingly Navi offers support already for DX9,10,12,Vulkan with RIS out of the box and someone in community already made wrapper for DX11)And last 2 years devs werehands full with PS4 Pro/Xbox One X (lul 150$ pad) games/patches and Switch adaptations.
>>71834186the developers using it, like itbut the most popular shit is middleware, and middleware isn't doing much to drive up adoption
>>71839889>the vast difference between dx11 and vulkan is the fact that nvidia cant fucking slap their shit on vulkan >therefore they cant pay the devs to do their job for themIt's worse than that for them, since the devs have more direct access to the GPU they can't insert changes with the drivers. With DX11 and lower they can intercept DX requests and alter them to suit their GPUs, sometimes at the expense of lower image quality. It's extremely wasteful as they have to have many developers constantly coding special profiles for each new game. It's an effective way to prevent competition in the GPU market, competitors can't afford to make custom driver profiles for every game, even if they make a better GPU it will likely get less FPS in well known DX11 games.
>>71837211>reinvent the wheel. you're not reinventing the wheel you stupid /agdg/ fuckyou're writing new software which improves on very poorly designed software based on hardware that no longer existsjust fucking kill yourself, please
>>71834186>amdrones pipe dreamwhat does it have to do with AMD CPUs?directx is bloated and slow piece of shit; change my mind
Doesn't UE4 use Vulkan? Or am I crazy
>>71841708it "uses" vulkan in the sense that it supports it, but if you want to make full use of vulkan's feature set you basically cannot support any other graphics APIs and have to completely redo your entire engine architecture to be more parallelized
>>71841725>cannot support any other graphics APIs>I don't know jack im talking aboutI guess that's why games can support DX 11 and 12, when 12 is meant to be similar ish to vulkan in its nature. Meanwhile Vulkan and DX11 is a thing in some games using UE4. So it clearly does work but sure just say its not.
>>71834322>Devs are lazy.Not everyone can be Carmack.
>>71837505But actual devs are not shareholders.
>>71841745>I guess that's why games can support DX 11 and 12, when 12 is meant to be similar ish to vulkan in its nature. Meanwhile Vulkan and DX11 is a thing in some games using UE4. So it clearly does work but sure just say its not.Most of the DX12 games and UE4 vulkan support is basically just a dx11 emulator running on top of the new API.
>>71841745> similar ish to vulkan in its natureSimilar-ish in the sense that it's lower level, however afaik its approach is not designed around concurrency as vulkan.Plus, even if it isn't, you still can't support old-style graphics APIs and all the low level concurrency features present in vulkan.Please don't talk about things you don't understand, gamerfag, you're not a developer.
>>71835898Mad Max is a forgotten gem
Vulkan doesn't have the backing to go mainstream outside of hipsters and professional flexers.
>>71842600>gamerfagwhoa stop there dude, gamers are a minority man!
>>71843121shut the fuck up u retarded whorehttps://www.khronos.org/members/list
>>71844002Yeah vulkan is reeeeal popular.
>>71834186The primary reason most games arent vulkan yet is because most games use one of a few common large 3rd party engines, and those engines need large structural changes to actually benefit from vulkan as opposed to using it, but not gaining performance, by shoehorning it into the place where a single-threaded opengl renderer used to be.
>>71843121See: >>71835553Many people use Vulkan more in their daily lives already than OGL or DX.
>mfw emulation dev incels keep using OpenGL despite being told time and again it's deprecated shit even the Khronos Group doesn't want to touch.I fucking hate emu devs.
>>71834317>Literally killed any possibility of AMD unfucking their opengl driversOpenGL. is obsolete legacy shit you fucking muppet. Next you're going to complain about Nvidia not supporting Glide.
>>71848486>being this much of a brainlet
how to download windows executives on native linux steam client then to have it working through dxvk instead of opengl
>>71834282Why would a developer want that? There’s a shit ton of DX11 still coming out because developers rather stay with what they know than apply truly new technology.
>>71834186what is DXVK