what's the point of this when countries are starting to force opening by law? I live in aus and I know both here and canada will force you to decrypt or face prison time
I'll just face prison time and get all the food, roof, medical care, etc, I need at the tax payer's expense then. No fucks even given.
>>70972225Its easy. Getting jailed for CP is something else than getting jailed for not decrypting your stuffBelieve me, you want to be in prison for 2 years for not decrypting your shit instead of 10 years including psychiatry and having to continue therapy afterwards until the end of your life
>>70972249i'm not a pedo I just value my privacy and don't think others should have access to it without a warrant
I'm glad i don't live in a cucked shithole where retarded stuff like that is a thing along with data caps and "muh copyright pls dont seed" memes.
>>70972258You are a pedo if you've got something to hide
>>70972258>I just value my privacywhy?
>>70972282just the principal of it. if its legal then its only my business and no one else's, especially not the government. aside from that, the aus government has had numerous data breaches and could well lose important information they copied from my laptop
>>70972272by that logic then you're a pedo too>>70972282why not?
>chrome browser preloads some unsavoury links>saves cp thumbnails to device>open your phone like a good citizen>???>decades in prison
>>70972282Do you live in a glass house by any chance? Maybe you livestream your bathroom? I mean, you got nothing to hide right?I just like to keep some things private. Even trivial things like notes for the shitty book I'm never going to finish writing. Just fuck off and leave me alone. Let me have my private stuff.
According to my lawyer, I forgot my decryption key and/or the device is not mine to begin with. It does not matter if you imprison me, for history will absolve me.
>>70972487forgetting isn't a valid excuse in aus and you'll still go to prison, so yeah I guess we'll sit in there with our principals
Isn't this what hidden volumes are for? Just have a boring stuff like tax records and vanilla porn in the outer volume, and a hidden volume with whatever you really want to hide. Anyone know how good current governments are at finding hidden volumes? Or at least what they are willing to reveal in court?
>>70972225It's not an issue if you have a brain and RTFM. https://blog.linuxbrujo.net/posts/plausible-deniability-with-luks/https://www.veracrypt.fr/en/Plausible%20Deniability.htmlIt was ever an issue:https://www.truecrypt71a.com/documentation/plausible-deniability/
>>70972703>>70972746Any news on this ever being broken by government or anyone else? I'm very interested in this because it seems like the security is perfect barring human factors.
>>70972806only by tortures
>>70972833Why were they being tortured in the first place if they gave the fake password to the fake part of the drive?
>>70972225revolt and topple your monarchy, this is why americans wrote the fifth amendment
>>70972746won't they see the other container on a copy of your machine? >>70972861its our elected government pushing it. we're fucked
>>70972846something something game theory:https://defuse.ca/truecrypt-plausible-deniability-useless-by-game-theory.htmIn general, you're safe>>70972893RTFM idiotEasiest explanation:your data looks like this:xxxxxxxxyy size is 10GBx is things you actually hide y is dummy data spaceIf you access your data with actual password and tick the right boxes in encryption software you access only xxxxxxxx part (you'll se 8GB partition). Everyhing is safe if you access your data with both passwords and tick the right boxes in encryption software, you access yy part (you'll see 2GB partition) and can safely manage your dummy data. Everyhing is safeif you access your data with dummy password (the exact same way as with real password) you'll see a 10GB partition with up to 2GB of dummy files and 8+GB of free space. when accessed with dummy password you can fill all 10GBs of container but it will silently fuck up your actual data.so the only flaw is, the guy who checks your data can fuck up your shit without having a chance to see it. Accidently or on purpose. Make backups.
>>70973035If you're in that kind of situation, you're probably better off losing some data.
>>70972282Because I gain nothing by losing my privacy.
>>70973035>game theorySo they know you are using true crypt to make a hidden volume? I know very little about security but is it not possible to hide that you are using true crypt and show that you using a different software to encrypt that doesn't have to feature to make hidden volumes? In that case the only solution from the government is to torture literally everyone that has a encrypted drive which seems impracticable.
>>70973035>https://defuse.ca/truecrypt-plausible-deniability-useless-by-game-theory.htmVery nice made-up figures.
>>70973228If you actually read it you'd realize the numbers don't matter only the relativity of them. As long as not getting away with it > getting arrested > chance of dying > dyingandGetting secret plans > chance of getting plans > not getting plansThen the argument is correct.
>>70973225>So they know you are using true crypt to make a hidden volume? No. They can only assume you're doing that if you're clever enough. It's not a default option, so it's up to you to act dumb and struggle a little before handing over dummy password.>is it not possible to hide that you are using true crypt?a) you have encryption software alongsideb) http://www.cyber-forensics.ch/how-to-find-truecrypt-containers/ but this can give false positives with truecrypt/veracrypt. Dunno about LUKS>>70973228I didn't even read that. Just posted it as inb4.
>>70972272you are a terrorist if you think I have something to hide
>>70972282Is as if lately political parties, terrorist, corrupt organizations, banks, police, goverments and even the media is taking advantage of our info to fuck over the people they don't like or something... no must be something else
>>70972225you can't hide from the government but you should protect yourself from private companies snooping your data
>>70972225>countries are starting to force opening by lawThey aren't. Not even USA does this because you're allowed not to incriminate yourself.>>70972282If you don't value your human rights then there's something wrong with you. I can understand underage people being sheep because they're just dumb and inexperienced, so I guess you're underage too.>>70974418>can't hide from the governmentPrivacy laws were literally made to hide from the government so that you can have a life outside of it and not be oppressed. Communists have tried destroying liberal countries by brainwashing people into believing they should give up their privacy "for the greater good".
>>70972225There's literally no point. Stop using encryption.
>>70972225It depends on why you're encrypting in the first place. Is it to stop someone who stole your laptop grabbing your credit card information, or are you intending on obfuscating your data from Government? What would be your reason for hiding your information - a desire for privacy, or are you up to no good?All my shit is encrypted, but if I was presented with a lawful warrant or court order to decrypt I would comply. The encryption is there to prevent the information from being hoovered without a lawful warrant. Kind of like locking your door, but opening it to a policeman with a valid search warrant.I'm clean anyway, so it really wouldn't be too much of an issue for me.
>>70974418what does that have to do with having an encrypted drive?
>>70974859A lawful warrant requires justification. What's lawful about demanding you decrypt your shit because you happen to be entering a country or something? Was your vacation suspicious or in any way giving authorities reasonable grounds for suspecting that you would harbor anything illegal behind your encrypted data?No, there is nothing lawful about this. Allowing unreasonable search and seizure is tyranny, plain and simple.
What if there was a movement of people just filling partitions or discs with literal random data? Encrypted containers have headers but LUKS at the very least can detatch its header. I don't think it is possible to distinguish between a /dev/urandom dump and a headerless encrypted block.Enough people just make partitions to store randomness in protest and everyone with actual encrypted data will have perfect plausible deniability.
>tfw living in a shithole 3rd world country where porn is bannedIf they force me to open my drives I'm going away for a long time
>>70974859OP here. The point is our government does not need a lawful warrant. They do not need to justify the action at all. They can simply demand you unlock your devices so they can copy it and you will go to prison for 5-10 years for refusal.
>>70974933The places that need it most like china and the like wouldn't be able to get the movement to spread because of how much control they have. It may be a decent idea to do it somewhere like the US where there is a culture of freedom and you can do it before the situation gets too dire like in China.
jee, just gpg -e your stuff into a file, then put it inside "Avengers.mkv".
>>70974929>No, there is nothing lawful about this. Allowing unreasonable search and seizure is tyranny, plain and simple.I believe Australia is having an election soon. Change your laws.
I encrypt in case of tyrone not the government
>>70972225its like these fucks never watched a man for all seasons.silence is "assent"
>>70974460>Not even USA does this because you're allowed not to incriminate yourself.except in airports where the constitution doesn't apply so they can still do whatever
>>70972689A judge probably forgets his passwords on a regularly basis.
>>70975076>airports where the constitution doesn't apply It does if you're an American
>>70974952I don't know how you jumped from Australia and US to China. I think everybody agrees that China is a lost cause, and encryption is far from the main thing they should be worrying about. The issue now is that even "free" countries are doing this shit in particular now (jailing for not giving up passwords).
>>70972225>not ecrypting stuff in case someone steals your laptop/etc because gov can try to force you to decrypt anywayAre you stupid?Also privacy > what your shitty gov says
>>70975184I was unaware that a places like china and russia are lost causes and I'm unsure if they are completely lost. My logic is that if something can work even in a place like China it can work everywhere no matter how shit things become.
encrypt that shit OP. don't fuck with any of these LEA "anons" we know who you are
>what's the point of this when countries are starting to force opening by law? I think the ultimate end-game is that decryption becomes so ubiquitous and advanced that practically everything is encrypted and we start cutting the state out of everything, this will lead to the state no longer being able to justify the claim that they have a right to open them by law.A good case of encryption working well is with iMessage. The Australian government - state and federal police have been caught MILLIONS OF TIMES accessing SMS and phone metadata without any good reason, in other words cops were just looking up ex-girlfriends or people they don't like. Nothing changed because of mass apathy and the mentality of normies - but then iMessage comes along, and now state and federal police are basically locked out of the whole thing, no access to metadata, so much less likely to be able to charge you for anything you said it an SMS. So in that case, even though the state was claiming a right to do 'x', the advancement in the technology cut them out of the equation.I think it should be noted that while the state may have laws on the books right now to force unlocking of encrypted volumes, they are very very unlikely to try to demand this unless they have a strong belief that by forcing you to do so they'll be able to find you guilty or something significant and socially unaccepted such as possessing CP.So really we should also seek to normalise CP. CP is THE major issue that states use to justify all of this invasive shit. It's always "think of the children!" and it shuts down rational thought on these issues for most normies.
>>70975329>So really we should also seek to normalise CPOk you lost me
Privacy is important because you gain nothing by giving it up, but someone else can make a gain from it using the exposed data about you.Why would you want someone else to profit off of you?
>>70972225Veracrypt hidden volume
>>70975374>you gain nothing by giving it upIt's pretty obvious what you gain, just ask any normie.>why should I use that weird messenging app anon. Just get on facebook like the rest of us!You lose convenience.
>>70975371Of course I did because you're the standard unthinking normie."Whaaaaaaa sexualised children! That's terrible!" Meanwhile the number of both children and adults who are having their sexuality and private lives violated by the state routinely, in the name of "fighting CP", is astronomically larger than those who are affected by the existence or even PRODUCTION of CP.
>>70975329> So really we should also seek to normalise CP. CP is THE major issue that states use to justify all of this invasive shit. It's always "think of the children!" and it shuts down rational thought on these issues for most normies.While you are right in your assertion that the excuse Western governments use is either "Think of the children!" or "Because terrists", we shouldn't sell our morals so cheaply.CP is wrong and terrorism is wrong. We shouldn't attempt to normalise either. There are already forces attempting to achieve both of these things anyway.
>>70972225"I'm sorry, gentlemen, my laptop contains work documents and I am not authorized to disclose those without an express permission of my superiors."
>>70975414Off you go to jail then sunshine.
>>70975398I'm not disagreeing with you in that "think of the children" is used way too much but that is way beyond an uphill battle. Good luck climbing that cliff.
>>70975170Why the fuck would you not check for potential terrorists entering your country? People who don't live in your country shouldn't have the same rights. So it's perfectly fine to spy on them and check their data.
>>70975399You LITERALLY just equated CP (that is, data which represents historical incidents of child abuse) with terrorism. You're not even comparing child sexual abuse or child sex exploitation with terrorism, but the actual representation of it. Look, right now I can go and watch a video of child being BEHEADED, or 5 years olds executing adults, or children being run over or crushed, or beaten to death. I can do all of that legally. I'm sure that for any of the victims of such violence, having video representations of it out there would be distressing - but I can do that legally, and it's just a fact of reality. So long as people believe that this media itself is a hugely evil thing, or that even those who consume such media are terrible, governments will exploit that to violate privacy on a much larger scale. As I've said - actual real children are routinely violated by the state charging them with crimes like production of CP even when they make videos of themselves and share it with friends. That type of abuse is MUCH more widespread than harm through CP. Imagine being a 14 year old boy or girl who has to front court and discuss their personal sexual life, after being charged with "production of CP" because you were horny, experimental, and the ability to share via social media was within a few touches\clicks. This happens all the time.>>70975431It was once the social norm throughout most of the west to think of gay sex as something that should barely be mentioned, let alone tolerated.
>>70975467> You LITERALLY just equated CP... with terrorism. Yup. Fuck pedos and fuck terrorists. If it was up to me, I'd behead the lot, and the reason the government CAN use this excuse is because of you degenerate dirtbags actually do it.We could normalise chld abuse like you say, or you lot could stop being filthy subhumans.
>>70975541I am not a pedo, I do NOT view CP, and I'm NOT a terrorist. I'm personal friends with people who were sexually abused as children, some of whom were abused with the aid of images. It's possible to have empathy for victims of violence and\or abuse, without necessarily throwing out an appreciation or defence of the right to privacy and security for others. You can't even have a debate on the right to privacy without throwing those accusations out there. Shit-tier poster.
>>70975576> I am not a pedo> Some of my best friends are victims of pedos and yet I'm still all "YEAH, BRING ON THE PIZZA!"Pedo sympathizer, near enough. Please report to your nearest gas chamber.
when are we going to start banning people with reddit cookies saved?
>>70972225I forgot the password.
>>70975632One of, if not THE major issue that victims of childhood sexual abuse deal with is that their relationships with abusers were often complex and went well beyond simple acts of sex. For example, one of my friends was abused by a step-father, who she had otherwise had a very good and close relationship with. So a major issue for her is that while she wanted freedom from the abuse and protection against him, she did NOT want to simplify classify her abuser as an inhuman monster to be decapitated. The way mainstream normies approach this issue - in "moral" absolutes, with a hysterical, histrionic mindset that gets to the point of even supporting the violation of children it claims to protect - is simply wrong. That's what I'm arguing against. You'd be one of those people supporting the sexual violation of Alan Turing, who was after all prosecuted under the very same piece of legislation that raised the Age of Consent from 12 to 16.I won't respond to you again, because this has totally derailed the thread when I was just attempting to make a point about a central issue in the fight for digital freedom.>>70975704A lot of these laws allow them to 'infer' that you're lying about this.
>>70972282Why won't you give me your credit card details?
>>70975704>Sir, you aren't complying with the warrant. If you continue to not comply you will be sent to jail.
>>70975722People forget passwords all the time. How can you infer they're lying? I have encrypted devices I can't remember the passwords for.
>>70972282>asking this question>not posting his address, name and social media and using tripcodesFucking pedo
>>70974989lmao yeah right mate my vote for non-labour/liberal is going straight in the nsw bin
>>70975213honestly hadn't even considered theft as a possibility. definitely would with something I travel to the third world with
>>70973208>I gain nothing by losing my privacy.Until the authoritarians gain power and you get arrested for something you said on the Internet years ago.
>>70975467You bring up some excellent points. I'm making your post into a pasta.
only pedos have something to hide
>>70976038and comedians these days. Gotta hide those illegal jokes.
hidden volume can give you plausible deniability
>>70975761all it takes is legal psychology bitch opinion
>>70972344Free speech is good not because you have something to say but exactly for the sake of shitposting
>>70972296>important information they copied from my laptop
>>70972487>It does not matter if you imprison me, for history will absolve me.You're too dumb to know that the reason for prison isn't for future historians?"I don't care if I eat rat droppings now as long as future historians say I ate lobster!"