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>people unironically believe this guy is 100% natural

LOL
>>
>>50425369
no one thinks hes natty
>>
>>50425369
from a roider, considering the amount of time and training that this guy has had, it’s believable . his muscles dont scream roids, good skin no obscene fullness
>>
>>50425369
What makes you think he isn't
>dense muscle fibers
>no exaggerated muscle groups
>lifting for 15+ years
>>
Hes a little too muscular and too lean for me but otherwise hes a 10/10 and husband material
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>>50425384
>>50425369
post body
>>
He's been lifting for like 20 years? Plus he is the chaddiest of Chads. Nothing about his appearance screams roids, he has smooth skin and a hairline that isn't on the back of his head.

If he is on roids, his body agrees with it which is like 0.01% of the population at the absolute most.
>>
>>50425389
>>50425393
>>50425399
>>50425398
Alphadestiny detected
>>
>>50425399

Roids don't make you go bald if you weren't gonna go bald anyway. Jay Cutler has the hairline of a 12 year old.
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>>50425412
well i hope he goes to jail for that
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>>50425369
Who cares. He's hot, I wish he was my husband.
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>>50425399
he's in his 30s, right? if he were predisposed to male pattern baldness his shit would be fucked up by now no matter what
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>>50425369
I wish his nudes would leak. We need another fappening.
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>>50425408
There are 4 alphadestinys? That is crazy.

>>50425412
Sounds like bullshit to me. Proof? Jay Cutler is fucking loaded man, he probably got a hair transplant.
>>
>>50425412

That's fucking wrong lmao.

Everyone loses hair, it just depends on the rate. AAS that converts to DHT will increase that rate.

Someone who would go bald at 100 might at 90, or someone at 30 at 20.
>>
>>50425389
>from a roider
As if that makes you an expert on the natty limit
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>>50425498
Everyone's hair thins out, but the only people who go bald from blasting test were already predisposed to male pattern baldness. Someone like Ilya Ilyin's hair is probably going to get thicker after he retires
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>>50425489

he doesn't seem like he's packing desu
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>>50425369
he's been lifting for like 15 years so it's not impossible I guess
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>>50425398
post body
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>>50425667
I just want to see it all, size doesn't matter to me.
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>>50425369
Assuming decent genetics, proper training and nutrition and an all round healthy lifestyle, I believe this physique is attainable on less than 300mg of testosterone/week. That is as close to natty as it gets for most pro wrestlers.
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>>50425744
no one's saying he's on a heroic dose
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>>50425369
this guy is absolutely on vitamin s and if you say otherwise you have been lifting under a year and/or you're extremely gullible
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>>50425744
Agreed. I'm the only person who looks like this and I've been on a low dose for awhile
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On-top of that, pre gear I was at a point where I gained 5lbs of muscle during that year so with the fact that you get exponentially less gains per year and I actually put on 15-20lbs of actual raw lean mass being the same body fat if not leaner than when I was at 175 at 205... Safe to say that was never happening even if I worked out for 30 years. After that year of a true clean lean bulk and achieving a 340lb bench, I knew there was absolutely no way I was going to get another 15-20lbs of muscle natty. So I took creatine
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>>50425866
You look like a fucking cartoon character, its sick mirin bro
>>
Totally achievable natty if you have good genetics.

The dude is insanely strong , bench in the 400s and can sumo hitch 700 ish lbs .
>>
>>50425866
mirin
>>
>>50425866
you had a great body to start with
nice
goal body if I were black
>>
Is @stoltzlift on ig natty?
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>>50425369
>people
No naive kids and people who don't lift.
Neither are real people.
>>
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>>50425956
I didn't start there. I lifted for 4 years prior without consistently dieting correctly. This was me at year 3. Year one I did everything right by accident because I came off ADHD pills and somehow magically did a clean bulk and went up from dyel 90lbs to 160 not fat. Here is 2 years after that. I have no pics before year 3. I tried to bulk a few times before and cut but there were shit attempts
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>>50425369
n-no its the nicotine and onions protein anon
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>>50425961
Really though, you guys claim to be able to tell if people are natty or not but I can't tell for the life of me and I really don't see what I'm supposed to be looking for. Muscles like balloons?
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>>50425399
kek is this a reference to that larping anon with the fake text convo
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>>50425369
He's definitely questionable. I'd say it might be possible for some people to get near this sort of body with a lot of time naturally, but chances are that he's used just because it's more likely.

If he's been lifting for as long as people say he has been and he's been keeping track of his progression then it would be a lot easier to say whether or not he's used just by looking for unnatural periods of gains.

>>50426067
I personally would say there's no specific formula to tell besides the blatantly obvious shit. Generally I would say the best way to tell is just based on the rate of muscle development past beginner levels. Most people will slow down on building their muscle as time goes on, since it gets harder and harder to grow more and more muscle just by rite of the fact that you already have to support and maintain what you already have and your body really wants to get by with as little as it thinks it needs.

Even then it's different from person to person. Some people are just better at gaining muscle than others naturally. The only thing I would try to pay attention to besides that is development of muscles that aren't regularly targeted and apparent universal muscle development without a routine that doesn't explain it. It someone has bulky muscles but it doesn't match what they're actually doing in the gym, then there's a good chance there's something fucky going on.
>>
Is his bulking diet legit or a troll? Ive been bulking on a jar of peanut butter and some oatmeal to make up the amino acids and I cant tell if im being memed or not
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>>50425964
>>50425765
>>50425744
>>50425718
He roided in his 20s which gives overloads the muscles and gives them a bigger nucleas or something. If you roid once, youre always going to be above the natty limit even off the gear
>>
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>>50426067
>Really though, you guys claim to be able to tell if people are natty or not but I can't tell for the life of me and I really don't see what I'm supposed to be looking for.
A few things give it away:

1) Dramatic muscle growth relative to before pics. Or any growth at all after the first five or six years of training. Scooby1961 unwittingly outed himself as /fraud/ by saying "Hey, I only gained 15 lb of muscle in my late 30s after 15 years of training. You can gain 15 lb naturally!" You can in fact gain that weight naturally, but not after your gains have plateaud for years.
2) Having incredibly full, 3d looking muscles and paper thin skin at single digit bodyfat percentage. Most natties look depleted and boney in contest condition or close to it. Pic related.
3) Huge traps and delts. Not that you can't get big muscles there without gear but these muscles are high in androgen receptors and swell up huge in response to AAS.
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>>50425393
>dese muscle fibers
LMAO
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>>50425369
/fit/ is 90% dyels and newfags. It shouldn't surprise you.
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why are mentally ill anti natty posters constantly shitting up the board?
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>>50425393
>>50425399
>>50425718
>HE'S BEEN LIFTING FOR 10000 YEARS HE MUST BE NATTY

The easiest way to spot a newfag with no experience. Pro tip: natty gains dry up after 3-4 years if you do everything right. After that it's nothing but diminishing returns

t. lifting for 12 years
>>
either peak natty limit or roids
nevertheless his dedication is admirable
>>
>>50426537
There's no natty alive that looks like that at 230lbs, dude. Don't kid yourself.
>>
The people that believe he’s a natural (and don’t kid yourself, this board is filled with retards who believe it) are the reason the fitness industry is filled with scammers and shysters and other obvious con men.

It’s always the same excuses from the same fucking retards. “He’s been lifting for 15 years!” “He was a wrestler!” “He lifts for hours a day!”

Seriously, if you actually believe the guy has never used steroids I’m fucking glad you get scammed, I really am, because your brain is defective. It’s better that any money you do have is taken from you, maybe then you’ll become homeless and starve to death and not be capable of passing on your defective genes. If you’ve lifted more than two years and actually think this guy is natural you’re fucking hopeless. You really fucking are.
>>
>>50425369
Dios mio... Who is this swarthy fella?
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>>50425396
good thing he is married and has a kid then huh
>>
>6'2" 230 lbs with an 8-pack
>natty

choose one
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>>50425369
this dude has the same wrists as me and im a 5" wrist skelly manlet
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>>50425866
lmao manlet spotted
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>>50425866
Miring bro. What dose and how many weeks? I am doing 250mg Test E rn
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>>50425369
He needs the natty card. I mean if he would tell people that he uses roids nobody would click his shit because there are hundreds of roiders out there who look the same and better. He would lose everything that goes for him if he would admit taking roids. Not saying that he isn't strong or anything but there are many roiders who look like this and stronger. The natty card is his only factor that distinguish him from the rest.
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>>50426589
Based.
>>
He admitted to doing steroids when he was younger so he can never be natty
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>>50426655
He's 6'1 which makes it even more ridiculous. He's an inch taller than Klokov and about the same weight while being leaner and /fit/ is dumb enough to think he's natural.
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>>50427002
to be fair, there are also retards who think klokov is natty just because roids are banned by the olympics.
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>>50427023
Those people would never reach adulthood if natural selection still existed.
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>>50427002
Holy fuck his legs look like they're gonna snap any minute.
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>>50425389
As a roider you have no idea what's achievable natty or not.
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>>50426589
This.
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>>50426533
When you're natural you can keep making gains until old age. If you're at what you think is the 'natty limit' and you trained arms and only arms everyday for 6 months are you telling me you'd see 0 growth in your arms?
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>>50427171
i think it's sports medicine consensus that a degree of bowleggedness is beneficial for athletic longevity
>>
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>>50427171
Nah, he's fine.
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>>50427220
No you can't you retard, your T levels start to drop past 30-35. It becomes hard to even maintain.
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>>50427220
You'd see growth but so miniscule that it's not worth spending all your time and money on. Why don't you try it and see what happens?
t. 3 years as natty, 4 months on gear
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>>50427220
>When you're natural you can keep making gains until old age
based retard

>If you're at what you think is the 'natty limit' and you trained arms and only arms everyday for 6 months are you telling me you'd see 0 growth in your arms?
Yes, newfag. Even roiders hit a hard wall eventually. Gains are not infinite, especially for natties.
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>>50427240
your t levels don't drop enough to see a real difference in muscle at that age.
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>>50427242
you dont even know what youre talking about having lifted only 3 years as a natty
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>>50427242
So you just admitted I'm correct, even if the gains are miniscule, you can still keep making gains.
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>>50427240
The drop isn't significant until you're legitimately old, like 45+, probably longer if you're healthy. It might be a problem if you're a bodybuilder, but normal people won't notice.
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>>50427251
Not him but you're out of your mind if you think you're going to see any gains as a natty after 5 years (assuming ate and slept enough and trained correctly).

t. trained 8 years natty before jumping on gear
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>>50427244
That's just not true, gains are infinite for natties, it's just that they slow down so much it takes years to even see a difference, but that adds up after lifting for decades.
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>>50427255
There's a difference between a minor, but constant drop and infinite gains like that retard thinks he can make. The natty limit is very real, it's just different for different people.
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>>50427247
>>50427255
It's roughly 1% per year and it accelerates in your late 40s/early 50s iirc. Obviously it doesn't make a difference the first few years but you can't make gains until "old age" natty.
And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying people should stop lifting, in fact I think men should get on trt when they're old and stay active.
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>>50427263
> gains are infinite for natties,
t. 6-month lifter high off his newb gains

I'd ask you to post body but I already know you're dyel as fuck.
>>
>>50427261
That's just not true. Say I've been lifting natty for 5 years (assuming size=strength which is does) if I eat in surpluss and train one movement everyday I'm going to get stronger at that movement, meaning I make gains.
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>>50425369
i love that people accuse him of roids here. they're the same people who would say
>roiding for this
if anyone had a similar body
>>
>>50427251
I've been doing 2 sessions of curls per week on top of my full body compound training for months and I haven't noticed any gains. The only thing that's changed is that i'm stronger at curls and extensions now ...
>>
No one in this thread has mentioned his strength feats that would be hella impressive for a natty
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>>50427278
> if I eat in surpluss and train one movement everyday I'm going to get stronger at that movement, meaning I make gains.

Except you won't because your body will stop making gains beyond a certain point. What that point is depends on your genetics.
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>>50427263
It doesn't add up to jack shit. The diminishing returns are so diminishing that you're in all practical terms done after 5 years at the most. It's possible to grow forever and still have a hard limit, this is like 6th grade math.
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>>50425369
Look at those huge cannonball delts and his pecs. There is no way in hell he is natural, unfortunately.
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HU48EJvHpBY
This is what he looks like without a pump or good lighting. No muscle fullness or vascularity. He's just peak natty
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>>50427278
You'll eventually be gaining grams of strength in that movement. Any growth doesn't mean meaningful growth.
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>>50427301
>those traps and delts are natural according to /fit/

Lmao.
>>
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>>50427301
>>50427314
forgot pic
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>>50425369
It's just a mindset bro
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>>50427228
>tfw knocked knees
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>>50427301
Have you seen his delts and traps? Sure he has no upper chest but that's because he never trains it.
And just overall he's packing a huge amount of mass, good luck getting there natty and lean.
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>>50427272
not him but post body.
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>>50427326
>cherrypicking images
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>>50427352
Nigger, even in this pic his traps look big.
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>>50427421
(you)
>>
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>>50427249
Yeah post body to prove me wrong.

>>50427251
I don't deny that but it means you're gonna be devoting the rest of your life for a possible 2kg of muscle mass and 5kg on your squat.

Moral of the story: natty lifting past year 3 is retarded. I'd say lift for 3 years, get lean, and if you're not happy with your body at that point you should hop on gear. But if you're aiming for the stars and you know from the start that your ambitions reach further than the natty limit you shouldn't bother waiting 3 years before hopping on gear. Just make sure you know what you're doing.
>>
>people defending Bugez' integrity ITT

holy shit i knew this place was worse now than it was before zyzz came along but i had no idea just how bad things were
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>>50427446
post body
>>
>>50425723
post body
>>
>actually giving two shits whether someone takes steroids or not

lmao
>>
>>50427171
It's honestly probably beneficial mechanically for lifting. At the elite level, you get all sorts of shit where the best competitors have abnormal bodies that seem almost designed specifically for what they do. For example, Michael Phelps being a really good swimmer due to his weird proportions of a long torso, lanky arms, and stubby legs. Or a lot of the oly lifters (especially the chinks) having femurs that are only like a foot long so they barely even need to lean when squatting deep.
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>>50427780
There was a video of a black powerlifter with arms so long and a torso so short that his hands would stop just 1inch above his knees when locking out on a deadlift.
Good benchers are short and/or have short arms for height, a barrel chest, wide frame, thick wrists etc.
>>
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>>50427780
>>50427811
Found him, his name was Lamar Gant. 5ft2, long ass arms, short torso.
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>>50427634
Your turn.
>>
Who cares? 90% of the reason he looks the way he does is bone structure/muscle bellies, if 99% of you took whatever he does you just look like puffed up goblins
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>>50427220
>When you're natural you can keep making gains until old age.
this is easily the most retarded thing i have ever read and believe me i have read many shit
>>
>>50427827
Apemode
>>
>>50428008
He probably believes old fucks like Scooby when they say they're natural.
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>>50427220
>If you're at what you think is the 'natty limit' and you trained arms and only arms everyday for 6 months are you telling me you'd see 0 growth in your arms?
Yes. Understand this: GAINS ARE NOT LINEAR. You gain x the first year, 0.5x the second, 0.25x the third, 0.125x the fourth, 0.0625x the fifth and after that, you're done growing. Plug in whatever number you want for x, it doesn't change the drop off rate for growth. Genetically gifted beasts gain more, others gain less but they all eventually hit a wall and have a choice: take gear or stop growing.
>>
>>50428224
any evidence to back this up or are you just pulling this out your ass
>>
>>50428315
How much of a clueless beginner are you? Open any book of exercise science and it will show you that muscle gains plateau quickly.
There was a famous trainer or exercise scientist who said that at the very best you can expect to make half of the gains you've had the previous year if you do everything correctly, I bet that's what that anon is referring to.
>>
>>50428224
Listen to naturals who have been lifting for over 5 years, like Eric Helms or Menno Henselmans. They say their rate of gains plateaued at about 1lbs/year if they do everything correctly, but never hit zero.
>>
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>>50428315
Lyle McDonald's research you faggot.
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>>50428456
so that just backs up my point you retard. It literally shows past 4 years you can keep making gains forever. 3lb a year for 10 years is 30lb of muscle.
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>>50428008
any evidence that you can't?

>>50428102
scooby admits he's on and it's quite easy to tell, you cant compare bugenhagen to scooby.
>>
>>50428476
No, he just says he didn't even bother calculating the gains past 4 years because they were insignificant. You don't just keep making the same 2-3lbs of muscle, it gets even worse year after year according to Alan Aragon. If you're this ignorant you should just stop posting.
>>
>>50428493
Scooby just says it's doctor prescribed and bans you from his channel if you tell him trt is gear.

>any evidence that you can't?
What a clown board this place has become.
>>
>>50428520
If there were 0 gains past 3 years then it would say 0. Even if you make 0.01lb of muscle a year past that point it means I'm correct.

You honestly believe after 3 years of lifting you hit your natty limit? lmao post body
>>
>>50428541
>What a clown board this place has become.
see >>50428456
>>
>>50428542
Are you still in high school? Don't they teach you about limits? You can keep adding decreasing values and get nowhere.
>>
>>50428558
You just (You)'d my own post, I'm guessing you're that retard with sub hs-level maths.
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>>50428560
so to you adding 1lb of muscle doesnt count as adding muscle? ok I see now you're just retarded
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>>50428573
you literally posted evidence that proves im right you degenerate
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>>50428542
The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. You're just trying to be right and denying that natty lifting is retarded after year 3
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>>50428595
You don't even understand asymptotic behavior, you fucking dunning kruger retard.
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>>50428616
It literally says 2-3lb of muslce a year, the not worth counting is per month
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>>50425369
he is. Sad if your genes dont allow you to reach this, or maybe you are just lazy.
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>>50425866
How much are you taking? Are you cycling or cruising year round on low doses? I'm considering taking low doses once my natty gains run out.
>>
>>50428520
That table says the gains PER MONTH are not worth calculating you illiterate mongoloid. The table says 2-3lbs/year for 4+ years.
>>
elite genetics. Its possible. Just look at photos of Jay Cutler and other pros when they were young. Without ever touching steroids and just fucking around at the gym in 1 year they already mogged 95% of /fit/. Its like being 6'6, there are very few but genes determine everything.
He is not even that vascular nor has canonball traps.
>>
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>>50428801
Jay Cutler after fucking around at the gym for some months, not eating right and partying all the time
Genetlets need to COPE
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>>50425369
>>50426533
>>50425384
>>50425408
>>50425744
>>50425765
>>50425866
>>50425964
T.roider who looks worse than the buges
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>>50425369
wwe shills. he himself already admitted to it a long time ago
>>
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He' just another classic liar. The dude'll do anything to get ahead, that AlphaDestiny guy basically built his fanbase, he constantly promoted him and Bugenhagen has literally never said thank you. It is also got him a good bit of NXT clout, because he already had a small fanbase going in that would spam NXT's social media asking to see more of Eric. Instead of just saying thanks to that AlphaDestiny guy, he instead bitches about him to other YouTubers like Jujimufu and made videos criticizing his lifts. He's just not a very genuine guy.
>>
>>50428871
alex pls go
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>>50428224
Which is still wrong. Calories in / calories out refutes this. If I eat 2000kcal over my maintenance limit i MUST gain weight. There is no natty limit, it's just people who don't know how to correct their diets. I've read somewhere that if you've been lifting for 5+ years as a natty your protein intake should be 500g minimum to see gains.
>>
>>50428651
Exactly. 2-3lbs a year is the "natty limit", but it's an infinite natty limit.


Let's say if you reached 180lbs when you're 21 natty after 4 years of lifting. Let's say you will gain 2lbs of PURE muscle per year. You lift for 10 years until you are 31. Now you have 200lbs (most of it is muscle). There, I did the math for ya
>>
>>50429069
Yes I agree with this, the other guy unironically believes that you don't make gains after 3 years of lifting.
Natty lifting is all about the long run
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>>50429092
Exactly, the gains will be slower but the muscle gained will be of a higher quality than that of a roiders. So what a roider can achieve at the age of 25, a natty can achieve at the age of 30 and so on.
>>
>>50425369
He was natty for a long time but I'm convinced he is on gear now. Was a fan for 3 years almost and unsubbed a few months ago. He just doesn't have it anymore.
>>
>>50428822
He wouldn't be posing like a faggot if he never cared for his body at that point. He wouldn't be a cock sucking bodybuilder fag if he wasn't gay. You're coping.
>>
>>50429133
Nice bro science.
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>>50429390
Where's the bro science? By quality muscle he probably means muscle you can maintain without having to pin. And you can achieve what some roiders achieve naturally.
>>
>>50429038
>your protein intake should be 500g minimum

YIKES!
>>
So are you even able to have a good body without gear according to /fit/? Do any of you even fucking lift?
>>
>>50429544
No, most don't. Even the roiders here have subpar bodies for the amount they take daily.

I'm sitting here natty with 19 1/2 inch arms after 6 years of lifting yet people tell me it's "impossible".

>>50429477
Yes, this is for experienced lifters.
>>
>>50429627
post body
>>
>>50429414
So what he meant was just muscle but he calls it quality muscle? So when I say bro science I just mean science in actuality according to your bullshit logic?
>>
>>50425866
You can't be a fly nigga if you pin like a cheating bitch.
>>
Butthurt roiders and butthurt DYELs will say any one is on roids to make themselves feel better. None have pushed their natural potential like Bugez, I know lots of nattys that are fucking huge. Just check any properly drug/lie tested bodybuilding comps
>>
>>50430474
muscle you gain on steroids isnt the same as when you're natty, when you come off roids you lose almost everything you gained, but when you're natural you dont really ever lose all your gains and even if you do you can get them back fast.
>>
>>50426067
really big and really lean. also roiders skin looks different. their pecs typically look kind of ridiculous and so do their delts. I don't think that bugez is frauding because his pecs aren't disproportionate.
>>
>ITT: virgins who’ve been lifting for less than a year with zero sport background attempt to discredit someone lifting for 15+ years who was involved in sports through college
>>
>>50426680
what? he's black dude

black dudes look fly no matter their height and are always learning

therefore height is irrelevant if black
>>
dude have u seen bugenhagen lift with juji? he doesn't look that jacked without good lighting and a pump, you take photos/videos of him at his best and say he roids, that's just silly
>>
>>50425399
once you lift seriously for 2 years you'll realise that "lifting for 20 years" is a meme
>>
>>50425866
Stop doing that with your lips!!!
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>>50430644
you lose all gains if you're a retard who doesn't do PCT and stops lifting, there aren't 2 types of muscle brainlet
>>
>>50430972
>you lose all gains if you're a retard who doesn't do PCT and stops lifting
that's just wrong

>there aren't 2 types of muscle brainlet
never claimed there were
>>
>>50425369
This guy is def natty af
>>
>>50430972
Wrong. A natty who stops lifting and loses all of their gains will basically regain ALL lost muscle mass in under 6 months of training, regardless of much of it they lost.
>>
>>50431054
Yes you did claim there were two types:
>muscle you gain on steroids isn't the same as muscle you gain natty
You fucking brainlet DYEL, now shut the fuck up.
>>
>>50431087
It literally isn't. This is why large roid freaks are weak as hell and get outlifted by nattys who weight 150lbs less than them.

Also I've been training for over a decade natty.
>>
>>50431087
if you read that and draw from it that theres two types of muscle you're mentally disabled.
>>
>>50431128
>>50431117
Ah yes, when someone says that there are two types of muscles
1) "natural" muscle or """"natty""""" muscle
and
2) fake aka roid muscle
then I must be the retard.
Are you two from /pol/ you dumb faggots? Get the fuck off of my board.
>>
>>50431156
Why does Bugez outlift roid freaks like Laid, Juju, Larry Wheels etc? Maybe because their muscle COMPOSITION is different you idiot.
>>
>>50431174
>Genetics, Steroids and training don't have an impact on your athletic ability
Eric "The Natty" Bugenhagen is also far from outlifting Larry Wheels, wtf are you on about you Mongoloid? Even Juji is probably stronger in a lot of lifts. David Laid is simply a little skinny fake natty bitch.
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>>50425369
This guy looks based
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>>50431706
Bugez deadlifted 1300lbs
>>
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>>50427242
>t. 3 years as natty, 4 months on gear
AHAHAHHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAH

BRO, what you're what, 21? and on gear?? TALKING ABOUT NATTY LIMIT???

AHAHAHAAH AHAHA HAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA
>>
>>50431742
>rackpulls are deadlifts now
>>
>>50426108
He says he took prohormones which wouldn’t he wouldn’t hold onto those gains.
>>
>>50429038
>If I eat 2000kcal over my maintenance limit i MUST gain weight
Correct. You will gain FAT, not muscle. You can't force your body to gain muscle by loading up on protein. If you could, why would anyone bother with steroids when they could just consume massive amounts of whey powder?

>I've read somewhere that if you've been lifting for 5+ years as a natty your protein intake should be 500g minimum to see gains.
Laughable. The only people who say such ridiculous things are protein companies and people paid to shill their products. You can take in all the protein you want but your capacity to store that protein in the form of muscle does not improve whatsoever, thus you will not see exponential gains from consuming more and more protein.

>>50429069
>Exactly. 2-3lbs a year is the "natty limit", but it's an infinite natty limit.
You're just wrong. If you could gain 3 lb a year, you'd be 30 lb heavier every 10 years, which is just LOL. Even IFBB pro bodybuilders are lucky to gain 5 lb a year of REAL muscle after 10 years of training, and that is with steroids, hgh, insulin, sarms and every peptide you can think of.
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>>50429133
>the gains will be slower but the muscle gained will be of a higher quality than that of a roiders.
No, it's exactly the opposite, actually. The quality of muscle a roider can achieve puts the quality of muscle a natty can achieve to shame. Natties can never get the dense, carved out of marble look that a guy on juice can achieve. Look at Dexter Jackson here. Natties do not get this kind of shredded, grainy condition with super full muscles that look like they are bursting through the skin.

>So what a roider can achieve at the age of 25, a natty can achieve at the age of 30 and so on.
Again, you're just wrong. Roiders can crash through the FFMI ceiling at an extremely young age while the average natty never even comes close to hitting it. Jay Cutler was pro at the age of 24. Look at his pics from that age, then find me a natty at age 34 who looks even close to that level of muscularity. It just doesn't happen.

>>50429627
>19 1/2 inch arms after 6 years of lifting
I'm natty and have 19 inch arms as well. However, I am totally forthcoming about the fact that I have higher than ideal body fat and am aided by a large bone structure (9" wrists because I'm 6'5" with a large frame). My arms certainly look nothing like those of Lee Priest, which are the kind of arms most think of when they think of huge arms. In other words, numbers do not tell the full story. This is especially important to contemplate when looking at numbers on a scale. Gaining weight does not mean you have gained muscle.
>>
>>50425399
>Nothing about his appearance screams roids,
No, it says it in a calm deliberate tone
>>
Jesus christ people on this board are retarded
Your size is limited by protein synthesis and breakdown
The reason juicers have a much higher ceiling is the extra androgens ramp up protein synthesis and suppress cortisol, it's also why they cna use more protein
Your natty limit will come when the stress needed to activate further synthesis releases enough cortisol to break down an equivalent amount of muscle, and for a natty you need ever increasing stress to keep gaining

Strength is slightly different as a great portion of what you can lift is becoming efficient at the lift and improving CNS recruitment

No amount of decades lifting will change these facts
>>
>>50433104
So ashwagandha is a cortisol supressant.. does that mean you can go beyond.. the natty limit?
>>
>>50434071
Any over the counter supplement you take is going to have a nominal impact. Just fucking pin test.
>>
>>50427228
My coach lifted since childhood in the GDR and has the same bowlegs. When you lifted from your childhood up like Klokov or my coach did of course your legs grow different from normal people who are not living from 4 years up in a weightlifting camp 24/7 and for centuries.



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