> According to the renowned vegan cardiologist and former president of the American College of Cardiology, Dr. Kim Williams, the Keto diet may negatively impact your health in the long run.> In a study published last month in The Lancet Public Health, it was found that low-carb diets such as the keto and paleo diets can reduce life expectancy. However, this is likely due to the fact that users typically replace carb-rich foods with meat and dairy products. A diet heavy in animal-based foods, particularly red and processed meats, is known by the medical community to increase one’s risk of certain chronic diseases such as cardiovascular disease, type-2 diabetes, cancer, and more.> Dr. Williams said that the keto diet can dramatically increase the risk of death by heart attack: “So I was talking about that and making sure everyone was hearing about that, and then there was one the ‘Journal of the American Heart Association’ published a few years later that isolated the people who had had a heart attack in the past, the cardiology population that we’re seeing, and they were doing a ketogenic diet,” he said. “It was a 53 percent increase in mortality. No one should be doing this.”https://www.livekindly.co/vegan-dr-kim-williams-says-keto-diet-suitable-for-no-one/Thoughts?
>Listening to a vegan ever
>>50002370While true this is tantamount to bait here nowadays. Too many low t, insecure teens and low IQ carnicucks are going to flood the thread screeching because they'd rather be told what they're already doing is right and because they're scared their already low t might drop even further due to compounds their body doesn't even utilize.
> According to the renowned vegan cardiologistWhy would I want to keep reading?
>>50002370Find me a meat eating doctor who recommends a vegan diet.This is exactly the same as the egg industry funding studies to prove that eggs are good
>can't shit>skin obliterated>weak>erectile dysfunction >teeth falling out>slurring words>psychosis>vitamin deficientBut atleast my risk for heart attack is lower! (According to one doctor out of 40,000)
>renowned>affirmative action niggerPick one.
>>50002390This.Vegans keep resorting to appeals to authority every time some braindead mouthpeice in a suit talks about their limited diets, that ugly little man has never trained a day in his life, if he's so concerned with date and evidence why isn't he doing that one thing that has been confirmed for over a thousand years to improve health, fucking excercise.>"we found evidence in an article published by these guys we paid, we cannot explain the exact causation nor publish any meaningful results, but... we're totally right"
>>50002370I don't know.. On one hand, people say that keto is lit and increases life expectancy when it's done in conjunction with IF (like OMAD (which I am doing)). I feel like many people who do keto use it as an attractive way to lose weight, "eat all the meat you want and shred off the pounds, this guy did it!" So as you'd might imagine, a lot of fat fucks hop on the keto train for that reason. So you have individuals whom have chronic conditions from carb heavy diets that died while living the last four months of their lives on keto, when they're at death's door. It's like what my dad tells me sometimes (don't fucking know why), stats are skewed. Like, he said if he had turbo terminal cancer, he'd hop on his motorcycle and redline the fuck out of it and finish his ride intentionally in a wall. Wants to go out speeding, not bed ridden. His death would be counted as a motorcycle crash / suicide for stats. Even though cancer pushed him. A lot like gun "violence" even though it's all suicide.
I dont know if going vegan is strictly necessary. I do know however that the data supporting a very low dietary fat intake (>10%) is very robust. You're just going to invite retarded contrarians, but your goal was probably to bait them anyway. Its pretty much scientific consensus at this point, so i dont get why people waste so much time trying to argue with whats akin to religion fanatics on the internet. Its the fitness communities equivalent of flat earthers. Leave them to their inevitable insulin resistance and CVD.
>>50002370who is this goblin looking motherfucker?
>>50002476This should be the first thing everyone notes, in an era of quotas the quality of everything and everyone is up for question, you never know whether your Doctor deserved their place or if they were just filling a diversity quota in med school, this goes from everything from construction to public services to academia.Stay safe /fit/, results talk, positions don't
>>50002370>Thoughts?He's right and wrong.Yes, nobody should do keto. But nobody should go vegan either.I mean, come on. We have more than enough case studies of people ruining themselves with either by now.
>>50002510Low-fat diets were a trend years ago when health problems in America were taking a sharp rise, they went quiet after a while, replaced with other fads before vegans and other NPCs revived the wild claims and they did so because a low-fat diet is one that is low in meat.> Its pretty much scientific consensus at this pointNo, it's public knowledge at this point, which is subject to change because you idiots will do whatever the media tells you,If YOU don't want to eat fats in your diet you can go enjoy your low testosterone levels, we however are in this for the gains and fitness, which both require fats
>>50002543Post case studies of people ruining themselves on a balanced vegan diet (fruitardians don't count)
>>50002591Like 50 people that Sv3rige interviewed.
>>50002499> On one hand, people say that keto is lit and increases life expectancy when it's done in conjunction with IF (like OMAD (which I am doing)).That’s because fasting and calorie restriction in general is associated with longevity. It’s not the Keto in that scenario.
>>50002591If you can't google, I can't help you. The internet is full of relapsing vegans. And most of them are anal enough about their nutrition data that it's a case study.
>>50002528Former president of the American College of Cardiology
>>50002562>Low-fat diets were a trend years ago when health problems in America were taking a sharp riseThat is such a zoomer thing to say.>If YOU don't want to eat fats in your diet you can go enjoy your low testosterone levels, we however are in this for the gains and fitness, which both require fatsAll athletes do low fat though. Hell, low fat was even done during the Middle Ages. It's that old.
>>50002370I don't use keto as a lifestyle. It's to cut a few months before summer and just 10 pounds at most.
Does he have Down syndrome?
>>50002621>That’s because fasting and calorie restriction in general is associated with longevity.Not true for humans.
>>50002630>there are case studies!>random people who posted online about how shitty their nutrition was
>>50002370So we looked at the data
>something MAY do somethingOH NO NO NO NOYou MAY get struck by lightning walking from your house to your car. ONE DAY YOU MAY
Keto will fuck you up a littleHigh carb will fuck you up a little moreZero carb high protein will unfuck youVegan will fuck your entire shit up beyond recognition, enjoy losing hair and teeth
>>50002370Its legitimately funny watching people fall for the keto meme, and then eating meat and eggs/dairy high fat bullshit and clogging their arteries.top kek.vegetarian here, i don't think i could ever full vegan.
>>50002534Isn't it funny how quotas hurt the people they're supposed to help, by destroying other people's trust in them?
>>50002664There is always a vegan in every one of these threads shilling his religion. Just post your physique. Let your results speak for themself. If veganism is optimal for us surely your physique will show it
>>50002664>I'll argue semantics, that will show himZoomer/10>>50002678>Zero carb high protein will unfuck youNo.>>50002696Well, I wouldn't call it funny. It's a testament to how naive and stupid people have become in the last decades.t. actually old enough to go on a low fat diet when it was all the rage
>>50002696>clogged arteriesOh boy
>>50002591>>50002664https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/7-nutrients-you-cant-get-from-plantsThere are 90 citations of papers on vegan diet in this article.
Did keto and IF for 2 months lost 20 pounds so far. Went from 205 to 185 pounds at 6'1 around 13-14% bf now. Went to the doctor yesterday for a blood test and got a call this morning that everything is normal lol. No fucking issues with LDL, HDL, triglycerides or cholesterol. Everthing else is within normal range or range for athletes. Wanted to test for bf% and testosterone levels too but the doctor told me that would have to be a different appointment. Keto helps fatasses like me curb hunger and my blood markers show that i am perfectly healthy. So fuck vegans for misinformation and fuck the sugar industry for paying off scientists to push the low fat fad in the 1960-70s. Is the reason for this obesity and diabetic epidemic. wwwucsfedu /news/2018/12/412916/sugars-sick-secrets-how-industry-forces-have-manipulated-science-downplay-harm
wtf is wrong with his face fucking ugly ass nigger
>>50002370>A diet heavy in animal-based foods, particularly red and processed meats, is known by the medical community to increase one’s risk of certain chronic diseases such as cardiovascular disease, type-2 diabetes, cancer, and more.How is eating meat going to cause type-2 diabetes? Meat barely causes and insulin reaction. Don't they even know why type-2 diabetes happens?
>>50002370What if u did keto but w no beef or processed meat?
>>50002866Don't ask vegans to do studies on meat honestly
>vegans lying about health to trick people into not eating animal productsHigh carbohydrate intake was associated with higher risk of total mortality, whereas total fat and individual types of fat were related to lower total mortality. Total fat and types of fat were not associated with cardiovascular disease, myocardial infarction, or cardiovascular disease mortality, whereas saturated fat had an inverse association with stroke. Global dietary guidelines should be reconsidered in light of these findings.https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(17)32252-3/abstract?code=lancet-site
>>50002807how on earth do ketofags not trigger ketoacidosis? legit question, I'm trying to understand here
>>50002899Only diabetic people get that and it is caused by exogenous insulin. If you don't inject insulin you don't get diabetic ketoacidosis.
Explain how a low carb diet causes diabetes please.
>>50002899ketoacidosis is caused by diabetes usually.Ketofags go into ketosis, it's different
>>50002929It doesn't. But intramyocellular lipids are believed to cause diabetes by interfering with insulin/receptors.This is separate to dietary fat, another anon might have information on Japs who develop diabetes. As they develop it at a lower BMI compared to Amerifats AFAIK
>>50002930>>50002922oh I see, thanks anons
>>50002929They can't because it doesn't. Diabetes type 2 is caused solely by carb overflow.
>>50002757>B12B12 is produced by bacteria. Animals cannot synthesise it, herbivores get it because their diet contains some amount of the soil (or in the case of factory farming, a b12 supplement) carnivores get it by eating herbivores. B12 supplements are made in the lab from those bacteria.>CreatineMost creatine is synthetically produced and thus vegan. >CarnosineFrom your article: "it is non-essential since it can be formed in the body from the amino acids histidine and beta-alanine">Vitamin D3Available as a vegan supplement: "vitamin D3 can be derived from an animal source (such as sheep’s wool) or lichen (a vegan-friendly source)">DHAAvailable as a vegan supplement made from algaeFrom your article: "DHA can also be made from the omega-3 fatty acid ALA, which is found in high amounts in flaxseeds, chia seeds and walnuts">Heme ironRight about heme iron being more easily absorbed, but claiming you can't get enough iron as a vegan is false.>TaurineNon-essential, and commonly synthetic. Red Bull is a vegan source of taurine if you're worried.Literally the most bullshit list ever.
>>50002757The only essential nutrient there is B12. Easily supplemented.
>>50002807Wow, abnormal blood work after two whole months. A fascinating case study.
>>50002850Due to the fat content. Intercellular lipids in muscle cells is one of the mechanisms that causes insulin resistance.
>>50003201>B12The bacteria is only converted into B12 in ruminant animals gut (cows etc.). Humans cannot do this conversion from bacteria to B12. The reason humans get B12 from eating "soil" is because there would be animal excrements (faeces, urine) in that soil containing B12. >CreatineCreatine is an animal product>CarnosineCarnosine is an animal product>Vitamin D3Vitamin D3 is an animal hormone.>DHAConversion rates of ALA and DHA are poor, and have never been proven from a vegan diet. Estimes show 2 cups of flax seeds equal the DHA from one bite of fish. Who eats 2 cups of flax seeds a day?>Heme ironVegans don't get heme iron. Try again. Essential supplementation = unhealthy diet. A diet that needs supplements to be healthy is by definition not a healthy diet, and will cause disease. >>50003225B12 is only found in animal products. Humans cannot convert bacteria to B12, only ruminants can. Serum levels of B12 do not always accurately reflect tissue levels of the nutrient.
>>50002370Thoroughly debunked, the vegan is a biased moron. Should have his license revoked.
The traditional keto diet of low carb and protein while eating high fat is absolute trash. They tell you to eat multiple meals a day. If you truly want to take control of your health, then do some actual research into autophagy and fasting. There is no better way to lose weight than fasting for 48 to 72 hrs while drinking water with salt and potassium in it, then on your refeed days you workout like a psycho and eat zero carb with high protein and high fat. I lost 200 pounds in a year and I kept almost all of it off for 6 years. I also healed my heart and cured my type 2 diabetes. Stop listening to the mainstream doctors who shill for anything other than fasting. Don't water fast either. Dry fasting is okay, but you have to refeed properly. Like someone else in the thread said, results are all that matters. Also, you don't stay on a keto diet forever. You want to lose the weight as fast as humanely possible to reduce any issues that may arise from how you lose it. Then you go on OMAD and you can even reintroduce carbs from fruits or have a big meal with the family every once in a while.
>>50002370stopped reading at >vegan
>>50003272>B12B12 supplements are manufactured with the use of bacteria. The b12 comes from them.>CreatineNope it isn't, the majority of creatine supplements are vegan because synthetic is cheaper.>CarnosineDoesn't matter it isn't essential>Vitamin d3An animal hormone....that is also produced in lichen and available as a vegan supplement.>DHAAgain available as an algae based supplement if you're worried>Heme ironYeah we don't, and it's not essential. As long as you get enough of non heme iron you're fine.Learn to read. Source your fucking claim b12 is ONLY created in ruminants. It's a lab product, trust me.
>>50003225Is it? What about this study, that shows that even vegans with adequate b12 intake/supplementation, still have brain atrophy?Also note how the smallest brained non vegans still had a larger brain than the largest brained vegans.
>>50002370>veganstopped there.Fuck off evil jew
>>50003348I saw the picture of a subhuman and didn't read it at all. Never listen to someone who got where they are solely due to racial preferences.
>>50002885> Cohort study where participants from such nations as Palestine, Zimbabwe, and Malaysia were asked to fill out a dietary survey> Doesn’t adjust for wealth> Holy shit, the rich people who we know eat more fat live less likely to have died during the period than the poor people who eat more carbs > No difference in risk of cardiovascular disease between carbs and fat> “does not support for very low carbohydrate diets”> Graph plotting fat suggests that too much or too little fat could be a problem> Advises moderate intake of carbs (50-55% of energy)Again:> “does not support for very low carbohydrate diets”
>>50003361Any diet that has to supplement that much is not healthy.
>>50003225>>50003378https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18779510Here is the study
>>50003361I'm not wasting my time on a vegan. You are a lost cause if you believe veganism is right lol. Brainwashed.
>>50002696Vegetarianism is a gateway diet. One day yiu’re a Vegetarian, the next day you’re a vegan, then you’re onto breatharian and the next thing you know you’re starving your children to death and calling them healthy.
>>50003419>what is bioavailibilityAlso, show me a long term vegan that doesn't look like shit
>>50003434>who doesn't roidFtfy
>>50002696Don't you see the contradiction in your statement? You laugh at people eating pure animal products, but you yourself are not a vegan, but a vegetarian because you like the animal products you can eat. They must be giving you some form of health if you never want to be vegan. You contradict yourself.
>>50003434Dr Greger is a long term vegan. He is 46 and looks really good for his age. But thats probably because hes a Dr and spends his life around trying to do a vegan diet 100% correct. He is the healthiest a vegan can theoretically be.
>>50003397That study has absolutely nothing to do with what you said.Typical carnie trick, spam studies and make wild claims and don’t expect people to check.
>>50003455You haven't read the full text, have you? All the points i mentioned are literally mentioned in the study.
>>50003452>advocates veganism>has less total muscle mass than a 9 year old girl based on muscle scans
>>50003476Is that actually true about the muscle scans? That would be awesome. Do you have a source?
>>50003479He looks like shit?
>>50003387So carbs are for poor people and it kills them? Rich people eat fat and live longer.Sound about right.Keep tricking morons into eating carbs. It keeps healthy food (i.e. meat, eggs, dairy) cheaper for the rest of us.
>>50003503Exactly, carbs also cause a large majority of mental health issues so that big pharma can own your brain with their meds. Let nature take care of the fools.
Vegans are most prone to be patients, suspect whatever the powers promote.That said keto is actually a diet meaning short term-not a lifestyle
>>50003474Your claim:> What about this study, that shows that even vegans with adequate b12 intake/supplementation, still have brain atrophy?Your link:> Study on 107 elderly people> Word vegan doesn’t appear once in the study> Identified that those will lower serum B12 had greater brain atrophyDid you link to the wrong study anon?
>>50003494post pics of ur 104+ yo wiener
>>50003503Yes, poor people dying on the developing world dying younger is because of their diet. Not the poverty at all.
>>50003551Diet is a function of poverty. Why do they promote insectivory to the poors now?Only in the west does not having animal foods come at premium.
>>50003494he's 104, everyone looks like shit at that age
>>50003503>>50003520If the study is so amazing I take it that you’re going to follow the recommendations of getting 50% of your calories from carbs?
>>50003603I haven't talked about the study once. I said earlier the best diet is a fasting focused one. I hate keto diets. They don't work. They eat the fuck out of muscle. Fasting is the best way to lose the fat, and save muscle. I have never done a vegan diet, so I can't talk about how it feels to do one, but for me fasting is the gateway to true health. Do you know anything about autophagy?
>>50003603Also, why are you vegan? Religion or morals?
>>50002370how would eating meat and dairy contribute more to diabetes than eating a high carb diet? Some of these arguments are flat out retarded. Jason genova is sharper than your academic vegan at this point
>>50003670Health, animal products are terrible for us. Also fits into my puritanist ideals.
>>50003715Carbs are terrible for us. Animal products cure metabolic syndrome which is the underlying cause of diabetes, Alzheimer's, heart disease, strokes, PCOS, etc.
>>50003715Well then keep doing you, but just like keto fags need to open their minds up, you should really look into autophagy if you are in it for health.
>>50003715Enjoy your nutrient shortages and malabsorption via antinutrients. The body can suspend harm, but not block.
>>50002498practice doesnt (dis)prove theory btw. Lots of people know what the right thing is in all of life, yet fail to act on it
>implying I want to live past 50
>>50002499This statistical paradox can be seen with people who quit smoking having a higher mortality than those that continue; the reason being that people often quit when their health fails.
>>50003789The Obesity Code by Dr Jason Fung, The Diabetes Code by Dr Jason Fung, and The Alzheimer's Antidote by Amy Berger.
>>50002370>if you no vegan you no brain ! you don't want to be no brain right ?every single time
>>50003745I fast as well anon.
>>50003860The sacred texts
Keto and fasting go hand-in-hand. Fat satiates so well you will fast without even doing it intentionally.
>>50002757>7 nutrients you cant get from plants> 5 out of 7 are non essential and can be formed through other path waysYour argument is always as strong as your weakest point
>>50003403>you're wrong because you are a ..?
>>50003888Then what's the issue? Who gives a shit what you eat as long as you eat once a day? High protein and high fat is great is weight loss when combined with fasting, but once you're lean go nuts and find what works for you at a lean weight.
>>50003739>>50003860The issue with carbs is the insulin spike.Low GI carbs are fine.
>>50003929Fasting is not a free licence to eat whatever you want in your window.
Only brainlets go vegan so they can live an extra 10-20 years without the visceral experience of carnivorous calories. I'd rather die young with a steak in my belly than be a depressed skinny hipster fuck at 130 years old.
>>50003993Fructose is low GI.The problem is carb overflow. If you eat more carbs than you burn, you get modern chronic diseases.
>>50004006Read the post again. Once you are lean. Find what works for you. If you are fat. Fast more. Eat high protein and fat. No insulin spike if in ketosis. Why is this so hard?
>>50003860ITT: people generalizing carbs>grains, potatoes, veggies, fruits, nuts, beans>sodas, white bread, chips, baking dough,
>>50003739>cut out carbs>get below calorie expenditure and lose weight>cure the metabolic syndrom by losing weight>hurr durr anima products are healthy
>>50004070All carb sources contribute to metabolic syndrome. If you only eat potatoes you probably won't cause carb overflow because potatoes have high satiety.If you eat potatoes with sugary drinks you're going to hit your carb limit.
>>50004096Animal products can't possibly cause metabolic syndrome even if you overeat. This is exclusively a carb problem.
>>50004122The issue is they cause other health problems.
>>50004147Most of those claims turned out to be false. Fats got scapegoated for problems caused by carbs.
Legit question. There is definitely enough evidence to suggest that meat and dairy does lead to higher levels of cardiovascular disease.Here is my problem with the vegan diet though. Most vegan substitutes, like vegan burgers, seitan, etc have hydrogenated oils.Essentially you are trading meat with bad oils and carbs. To me that doesn't sound healthy.
>>50004198>There is definitely enough evidence to suggest that meat and dairy does lead to higher levels of cardiovascular disease.No
>>50002370Dude looks unironically like a chimpazee
>>50004198You're misinformed. Cardiovascular disease is caused by metabolic syndrome, which is caused by carbs.The one and only claim about animal products that may have merit is red meat and processed meat causing cancer. That's all. Unprocessed red meat being carcinogenic is debatable.All other claims are debunked bullshit.
>>50004207https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3483430/https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30535398https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3150So yeah it does.
>>50004243Legit, show me the evidence. I am not asking this as a challenge but I want to be more informed.I just posted some pubmed articles that where talking about red meat and processed meat consumption.Are you saying that white meat (chicken, turkey, fish) is fine?What about dairy? There seems to be strong evidence linking dairy to forms of cancer.
>>50002370Nutrition studies are ALWAYS compromised, hence why no one can ever fucking agree on anything. The main problems with this and virtually every other study? >NO CONTROL FOR QUALITY :>Grass fed beef, tallow and dairy =/= factory farmed beef, tallow and dairy>wild game =/= hot dogs and lunch meat>organic pasture-raised eggs =/= factory farmed eggs raised on corn and s-o-y>fresh water fish =/= mercury-filled salt water fish>wild-caught fish =/= factory farmed fish>chemically extracted high-omega-6 oils cooked at high temps =/= organic, cold-pressed balanced omega oils consumed at room temp>NO CONTROL IN GENERAL:>Surveying people and expecting them to be both honest and accurate in their reporting on their diet =/= monitoring and controlling a diet 24/7 for decades>NO CONTROL FOR EXERCISE:>A suboptimal diet plus regular, intense exercise is almost always superior to an less optimal diet with a sedentary lifestyle>CONFLICTS OF INTEREST>No one ever funds a study without a profit motive, period.>NOT CONTROLLING FOR RACE/GENETICSWhat one genetic group has been eating for 20 thousand years may never have been introduced to another group. Studies in America almost always lump every race and genetic group together, on top of every other flaw listed above. >POOR INTERPRETATION OF RESULTS>the result of all of the above failures of modern "science"Vegan faggots will understand this or admit that 100% of the evidence supporting their delusions are funded by agricultural corporations who make most of their money on pumping people and livestock full of corn and onions. Calling propaganda a "study" does not make it science.
>>50004261Still no, don't gish gallop me with shit tier studies
>>50004282So according to you, what is the optimal health for health and muscle building / low body fat?
>>50004261A quick glance at these seems like they are shitty studies. Salt has been debunked as having anything to do with CHD and meat definitely doesn't cause type 2 diabetes.
>>50004321I think you're missing his point m8. Science can't fucking figure it out properly because the studies aren't being done properly.
>>50004389So your retort is "we don't know?"Cause that's kind of bullshit.
>>50004486Better than dishonestly claiming that you do know
>>50004486Best evidence suggests a diet with plenty of water, salt, natural fats, and moderate carbs only from whole plants is healthy.Part of the problem is different races may do best on different diets.Eat what your ancestors ate and avoid processed food.
>>50004486We clearly don't fucking know, or the entire modern world wouldn't still be arguing about it for the last ~100 years. High carb seems to work for Japan. But we aren't all Japanese. Bread is not rice. We don't all eat fish every day. High fat low carb works for a lot of indigenous tribes. But we don't a live off of wild game and wild plants. Not every study is applicable to every human being in earth. All carbs are not equal. All fats are not equal. All proteins are not equal. Experiment, and find what works for YOU. What worked best for your ancestors is always a good pace to start. But YOU are not your ancestors either. You'll have to experiment and figure it out yourself. Cut out foods that make you feel like shit, give you acne, digestion problems, etc. Cut foods that we know are harmful. Just use common sense and listen to your body.
>>50004547>High carb seems to work for JapanNah, Nips are getting diabetes like crazy. They just aren't fat because they have very little adipose tissue and it goes straight to their internal organs.They were healthier eating less carb and more seafood.
>>50004578This is exactly what I mean. The concensus is it works for them, but if what you're saying is true, then that concensus is likely bullshit too. I think high carb is generally okay for most Europeans and Asians IF AND ONLY IF they are high quality, clean carbs from whole foods AND they are very physically active. Even then, lots of people have issues with grains in general. Lots of people don't. Is the issue GMO grains? No one fucking knows because it's not being studied properly and probably never will. Everyone is just guessing, as any good scientists will admit. The only answer I can come up with is to experiment yourself to find what works for you. Starting with a very and limited diet for a few weeks and then gradually introducing new foods I think is a good approach. Kind of like whole 30, but even more strict. A lot of people have issues with specific vegetables, which is why carnivore is catching on and some people have success wibt it. It doesn't mean ALL FRUITS AND VEGGIES BAD. It means if broccoli makes you fart maybe you should try eating less broccoli, or replace it with a different vegetable.
>>50004282>>50004389>>50004547>>50004713What we should do is look at the best and most robust studies of the highest level of evidence that are peer reviewed and accepted by expert panels when forming nutritional guidelines.No study will ever be perfect. Using this as a criticism to ignore the studies we do have just because you don’t like the conclusion (I.e., meat consumption may have some negative health consequences, or Keto isn’t as amazing as the fan club claims) is pure cope.
>>50002370Holy shit he looks like the 56 percent meme Is this a shoop?
I think the majority will agree that we need to1. Eat a lot of veggies2. Avoid processed foods (doesn't matter if it's sugar, processed meats...deli meats)3. Exercise4. FiberThis is pretty much how i want to eat/be
>>50004713Most fruits are overly sugary pieces of shit, not by nature but because we bred them that way.Literally nobody says VEGGIES BAD. Nobody, especially not people concerning themselves with Ketosis. It's the exact opposite.
>>50002643>That is such a zoomer thing to say.Zoomers are all vegan though, based boomer eats steak at their outdoor barbeques while you're sleeping off a night of fortnite.
>>50002474>>50002640what does that have anything to do with keto diets
>>50004901I disagree with 1 and 4I get nearly 100% of all my micros eating minimal plants, according to Cronometer.I eat less than 1/3 of the fiber RDA. My poop is fine.Fat serves much the same function as fiber, assuming you don't have a bunch of indigestible plant matter in your gut. I poop less often, but that's because animal products (compared to vegetables) are almost completely digestible.If you want to verify, drink olive oil and get back to me once the diarrhea starts.
>>50005202>I get nearly 100% of all my micros eating minimal plants, according to Cronometer.Screen cap it. I legit want to see what you are eating.
>>50004810All the high quality studies show keto is amazing.Only very bad surveys which don't even fit low carb criteria say otherwise.
>>50005388At weight loss.This extrapolation of Keto being amazing for everything else and all carbs (not just refined sugar) being responsible for every health issue going is baseless.
>>50005518Yet it's pretty damn hard to have people list "good" carbs, outside of cookes sweet potatoes.
>>5000520275% of poop is bacteria.This bacteria feeds on fiber, by starving it you’re drastically altering the composition of your microbiome which has been shown to be protective.
>>50005543Starchy vegetables, grains, legumes.These are good for you anon.
>>50002439I'm one. The data is pretty clear in terms of longevity. I eat meat, etc. to get my protein in easier.
>>50005574Truth. Whole grains, fruits, vegetables, nuts, legumes all have a mortaliy risk ratio <1. The only animal product like that is fatty fish. Dairy is ~1. And everything else is is >1. Still gonna eat a steak tomorrow though.
>>50005290The cabbage, peppers, and broccoli aren't necessary. They provide ~70mg of Vitamin C and 3g of Fiber; they're just there because they taste fucking good with my liver.The RDA for Vitamin C is 100mg. However, 10mg prevents all symptoms of Vitamin C deficiency - and the parsley and the liver together provide that much, so I could cut out those vegetables if I wanted to and would only lose out on palatability.So, most of my fiber come form the almond butter and the oats (7g total). I eat the weekly helping of oats and nut butter on Saturday (spread throughout the day), because frankly I don't like it very much and I want it to be over with. I could do without, but together they make up 50% of my Magnesium and Manganese. I'm pretty sure the RDA for both of these is just as fake and gay as Vitamin C, considering how scarce they both are in actual people diets. But I haven't confirmed it yet. When I cut, I drop the nut butter and the oats and even two months into a cut I don't feel bad, so it's probably unnecessary. Any additional calories I need to meet my consumption goal (maintenance or bulk), I just eat chick thighs until I get there.>>50005547Nigger if there are bacteria that eat fiber, and I don't eat fiber, why would I need that bacteria?Sounds like a tautology.
>>50005674Not him, but the bacteria produce SCFAs from soluble fiber in your colon which reduces your colon cancer risk.
>>50005692Also I want to add increasing fiber consumption upwards of ~35g/day (not from supplements) is associated woth increasingly reduced mortality. Gotta eat dem beans, bitch.
>>50005692>>50005708I'm fit, and have always been fit, with no family history of cancer.My mortality and cancer risk is already retardedly low. Barring an accident, I'll live to my 80s easily. So, idgaf about your SCFA.
>>50002370How many 600lbs mammoths were doing the "keto" diet in that study? Most actual /fit/izens use keto to cut and eat complex carbs while bulking
>>50004866No he's just a nigger.
>>50005388The thing a lot of these studies have in common is calorie restriction, which no shit is good. I think other diets matched for calorie level with more fiber, etc. are probably healthier long-term. High carb (>65% of diet calories) is when carbs start to become assoiated with increased mortality.
>>50005674>30 fucking dollars for a single day's worth of food>14 fucking food items>still not 100% on all the RDA's>2734mg cholesterolwhat the fuck lmao, imagine defending this shit diet
>>50005754except keto is fucking trash for both, considering protein and carbs are the most anabolic macros in the diet, fats don't do shit except accumulate in your fat
>>50002370>processed meatsno one on keto is eating that shit anyway, have to eat quality meat
>>50005775I think that the key take-away from food health studies is that not being fat eliminates >95% of your problems.I don't care what you eat, frankly. Just don't be fat and do some exercise.>>5000580330$ for a week you illiterate faggot.>lmao cholesterolGo sip your Monster, fatty.
>>50005832Yeah honestly your macro composition isn't that critical for health as long as it isn't too extreme. It really is the bodyfat. Also don't hate me but there re a few recent studies that show dietary cholesterol is still mildly associated with serum cholesterol, but genetic factors and general adiposity have a bigger effect.
>>50005832>cholesterol is not an issue so allow me to feast upon nearly 3g of cholesterol a day for no fucking reason am I not a cool little edgy dietary contrarian?fucking lmaoing at u rn
>>50005803>>still not 100% on all the RDA'sOnly thing he's missing is Vitamin C, which is irrevelant, since it's in everything and Magnesium.ZMA before sleep and anything to drink other than water and he's literally ideally fed, with 175g of protein. This is a fucking achievement and I'm saying this as a registered dietician.
>>50005829There are tons of retards doing keto and a lot of them probably eat lunchmeat, etc.
>>50005905Then you should know increased consumption of C from the diet, especially above RDA is associated with reduced mortality. Just because these vitamin levels prevent deficiency diseases do not mea they're ideal.
>>50005674>Nigger if there are bacteria that eat fiber, and I don't eat fiber, why would I need that bacteria?https://www.bmj.com/content/361/bmj.k2179> Other specific products of the gut microbiota have been implicated directly in human health outcomes. Examples include trimethylamine and indolepropionic acid. [...] Indolepropionic acid is highly correlated with dietary fibre intake25 and has potent radical scavenging activity in vitro,26 which seems to reduce the risk of incidence of type 2 diabetes.25https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5331556/> readily-fermented fiber types, such as oligosaccharides and resistant starch, may have other important physiologic effects via the metabolites produced from microbial fermentation. The most studied products of fermentation are SCFAs, mainly butyrate, propionate, and acetate . Up to 95% of SCFAs are absorbed by the colonocytes of the large intestine , and recent evidence has shown that they may play a role in health and prevention of disease, such as bowel disease, colon cancer, and metabolic syndrome [20,24,25,26]. SCFAs have been shown to affect gut health, immune function, energy metabolism, stimulation of the sympathetic nervous system, and serotonin release [4,7,20].https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3601187/> Although not considered to be prebiotic in the classical sense, dietary fiber consumption has been shown to result in the production of colonic SCFAs and recently was demonstrated to have beneficial effects on endotoxemia, inflammatory cytokine production, and obesity-related inflammation as well as glucose and lipid metabolism.156
>>50002370>In a study published last month in The Lancet Public Health, it was found that low-carb diets such as the keto and paleo diets can reduce life expectancy.This is the study they are referring to:https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(18)30135-X/fulltext>information from dietary questionnaires>low carbohydrate consumption (<40%)Well shit I guess I'll have to stop my extreme 37% carbs ketogenic diet. Remember, everything in moderation and when in doubt follow received wisdom rooted in agricultural industry propaganda>>50002439the difference is that eggs are actually good
>>50002370been on keto for like a month an never felt better, large amounts of fiber has been fucking my digestive system up for awhile, but after being on keto for a bit then trying to eat some whole grain pasta the other night i can really see how hard that shit is on my digestive system.honestly all food has its benefits and downsides. but for me cutting out grains and fruit is proving beneficial
>>50005674>all this gay shit>32.3g net carbs out of 0.0gLMAOimagine falling for this retarded fucking keto meme shityou ain't gonna get fucking muscle gains on 177g of protein and 32g of carbs lmao, keto is catabolic as fuck
>>50005905>only thing he'0s missing is vitamin C, which is irrelevantLMAOyeah bro massive achievemnt only 14 different food items needed to get MOST of the rda's woah fucking amazing work >175g of proteinyou make it seem like it's a lot>ideally fed>32g of fucking carbsdude is miserable lmao
>>50005995The issue is anons are extrapolating weight loss and how they generally feel (which will always be better when you lose weight) with health overall which is false.We have the HAES movement who say that there is 0% correlation between waistline and health and on the other end of the spectrum we have the ketards saying there is a 100% correlation.Both are incredibly wrong.
>>50003361>the majority of creatine supplements are vegan because synthetic is cheaper.convincing yourself synthetic food is ok? mental gymnastics my man
>>50002380I’ve been looking for this image. I have a crazy black ex who I called a nigger cunt everyday leading up to me dumping her. Every now and again I get a text from her but ignore it. Next time I get one I’m sending her this but editing it to have a hard r lmao
>>50005819what the fuck are you even trying to say>considering protein and carbs are the most anabolic macros in the diet>fats don't do shit except accumulate in your fateven if what you just spewed onto my screen is true (it's not, you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about) that is by definition anabolicyou're an idiot
>>50003201>>50003225>>50003904So we're agreed that, in order to obtain both essential and desirable nutrients normally found in omnivore diets, it is necessary for vegans to take supplements? Supplements unavailable to most of the worlds population.Well I certainly feel veganism is healthier and more natural now...
>Vegan dietsGood if you can’t adopt a more active lifestyle>meat heavy omnivore dietsWhat we evolved to eat, only really good if you’re able to lift and do some kind of cardio oftenEating meat is what made us who we are today. The high fat, and ultimately in the future cooking food, allowed our brains to grow and change to what we have today. But since were living in a time where we exist to work stupid jobs just so we can pay our government, many aren’t able to lead as active lives as we really should.We have the luxury of being able to do both, although one is certainly superior for things like lifting.
>>50006020why are you such a spastic? must be all the carbs and insulin fucking your braincells. I doubt you've ever even tried an actual ketogenic diet
>>50005948Though a lot of that appears to be related to diabetics (which I will never develop) and obese people, I'll acknowledge that there may be something to it.I don't particularly care to change though. I'm healthy af.And to be clear, I'm not shitting on moderate/high carb diets, or shilling for keto/carnivore. I don't care what you eat as long as you're not fat.>>50005896I'm not eating cholesterol for the purpose of being an edgy contrarian. I just like eggs. Quit being obtuse.My blood cholesterol is fine, per my physician.>>50006000I put on 8 or 9 pounds of lean mass (probably 8, my tape measurements are better than my sfc measurement - still getting the technique down for the latter) out of 10 pounds of weight gain, over a one-month period. I did it eating like above and working out 6 days a week.Currently fasting for Lent. My DXA scan has me at 17.8% BF on March 8th, so my home-measurements aren't that far off from reality (give or take 1%). I'll get a follow-up DXA after I break my fast and refeed (water weight shows up as lean mass, so I want to get my water retention back to "normal" before I take the follow-up scan).I'll do the self-experiments for you, anon.
>>50006118bro cavemen used to eat sheep's woolu seriously didn't know that lol
I eat pork, eggs, beef, liver, butter, salmon, cheese, seafood, some veggies, some nuts, some alcohol on social occasions>>50005674your omega 6 to 3 ratio isn't idealwhy is everyone hating on low carb?carbs don't make you fatfat doesn't make you fatinsulin resistance makes you fatcarbs + fat in a hypercaloric diet makes you fat
>>50006118> appeal to nature fallacy
>>50006053always extremist fucks incapable of moderation or considering another point of view.im pretty lean 5'11 170lbs so not in it for the weight loss just general health, ive maybe went down 5lbs or so, feels like gut inflammation went down, less time digesting food in my gut, just dont think i can handle large amounts of fiber, im shitting so much better. on high carb shits would literally tear my ass up to the point of small amounts of blood when wiping
>>50006118Do you live at a latitude higher than 37 degrees?If you do then you should be supplementing Vitamin D (or moving considering you seem to equate requiring a supplement as bad)
>>50006217>carbs + fat in a hypercaloric diet makes you fatThis. Jesus Christ, this has been known for fucking ever. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randle_cycleSo tired of vegan brainlets claiming it's fats alone that cause diabetes and ketard fuckwits claiming it's carbs alone that cause it. MIXED MACRONUTRIENT DIETS ARE THE CAUSE OF EVERY MODERN DISEASE. PERIOD.
>>50006217True, but I'm not sure how accurate the RDA is for low-carb diets. The RDA is based on the Standard American Diet, and it's well known that certain foods can promote/inhibit the absorption of vitamins and minerals.For example, Vitamin C competes with glucose for absorption - and glucose is absorbed preferentially. So the dietary needs for Vit.C of a high-carb diet are greater than a low-carb diet, because low-carb more efficiently absorbs Vit. C.It's an area of study in need of a lot of work, but tracking long-term diets over extended periods can be difficult, especially if it's self-reported.Until then, I'll gather anecdotal evidence based on my own diet, weight change, and bloodwork. Anecdotal evidence might not be best in general, but it's pretty good when it's your own evidence used for your own body.
>>50004961>Most fruits are overly sugary pieces of shit because we bred them that way.100% agree. The only fruits I will eat are low sugar/carb fruit like tomatoes, zucchini, squash, cucumber, peppers. I.E. mostly the fruits that most people think are vegetables because they aren't full of sugar. That and some berries and low sugar citrus. >Literally nobody says VEGGIES BADExcept for carnivores, the group I specifically mentioned. They have some good points, but they make some huge logical leaps in their conclusions. The truth is that CERTAIN vegetables don't agree with CERTAIN people. The solution is for those individuals to identify the foods that cause them problems and reduce or eliminate them. For example I fucking love mushrooms, but they give me insane gas, slimy shits and an itchy burning asshole for days if I eat much more than about an oz of them. So I keep them to a minimum. A few for flavor in a broth or some stroganoff is fine, but I can't go eating piles of them without literally paying out my ass for it.
>>50006000>Calcium overdoseEnjoy your hardened liver, lmao
>>50006217A handful of almonds would take care of that vitamin e for ya
>>50006306The RDA is trash, Vitamin D should be 9000 IU but due to errors it's 400IU, Calcium is wayyy to high, Vitamin K2 isn't even mentioned, all the minerals do not account for bioavailability, Vitamin E is needed based on how much PUFA's you eat, Pre-Vitamin A is somehow the same as true Vitamin A (Retinol)
>>50006399>For example I fucking love mushrooms, but they give me insane gas, slimy shits and an itchy burning asshole for days if I eat much more than about an oz of them.Did you ever consider that you might be having an allergic response to them and that consuming even a little bit of them could be causing an inflammatory response throughout your body? You know, the stuff that if kept up for a long period of time literally causes cancer, heart disease, depression, etc?
>>50006020>only 14 different food items>NoSalt is seasoning>Parsley is an herb, used for seasoning>Butter and oil used for cooking>3 vegetables added for tasteWhy are you angry? Do you cook your food in a dry pan and eat it plain?
>>50003251>dietary fat goes straight into bodily fatty tissuesPeople get fat by eating too much, not by eating fat.
>>50002696>clogging their arterieswhy do all the youtubers that do carnivore/extreme keto have perfect arteries. Hell Dave Feldman even reduced his artery thickness by doing strict keto
>>50002370Dios mio el goblino americano
>>50006646To my knowledge they’ve only posted their bloodwork (and they nearly all have elevated serum cholesterol).Have any ever presented any evidence of assessment of their arteries?
>>50004261>red meat increases TMAOliterally nothing elsethis is supposed to prove meat is bad for you?
>>50006710I've seen 3 of them post actual scans. Elevated cholesterol is fine as long as triglicerides are low and hdl is high
>>50006178>>50006223>>50006243>veganism is great and healthy, why don't you do it?Because I get all the nutrients I need from a perfectly normal diet without having to supplement.Sure, supplements aren't bad, sure it's sometimes necessary to take them - but it's very often a vegan argument that veganism is 'more natural', 'healthier', 'how we're supposed to be', etc. Which is patently untrue.We have evolved to be omnivores, that you can break your diet then fix it by supplementation doesn't mean you should. I'm perfectly happy with my place in the food chain, perfectly happy that I am an animal non-separate from the rest of creation.
>>50006710There's quite a lot of people who claim to have reduced their CAC score by doing keto on youtube, keto subreddit, ketoforums etc.Whether it's true or not, I don't know. AFAIK the only clinically proven method for reversing atherosclerosis is a complete lifestyle overhaul including eating a strict vegetarian low fat diet, therapy, reducing stress, etc. Dean Ornish if anyone's interested in reading up on thatt. carnivore
>>50005819>He doesn't know dietary cholesterol levels make it easier to produce testosterone because cholesterol is a building block for test.
>>50006950Washing food destroys b12 in the past food was more dirty so has b12 in it. A lot of livestock is fed vitamin enriched grain. Same with fish being fed flaxseed
>>50007516A healthy adult needs 2.5mcg of B12 daily. According to the internet*, 100g of soil can contain about 1mcg of B12. This B12 comes from animal fecal matter, and only about 5–10% of it is in a form that can be absorbed by the human body. Also, the body only absorbs around 50% of the “good” B12 it consumes.So, if we consider all this, a human can only absorb something like 0.005mgc of B12 for every 100g of dirt they consume. To meet daily requirements (and assuming they’re not getting B12 from anywhere else), they’d need to eat something like 5 kilograms/11 pounds of soil. Every day.B12 comes from meat. This simple fact destroys veganism forever. Get over it.
>>50005757FHe was done before he even started
>veganim sure he isnt biased you guys
>>50005896>a cool little edgy dietary contrarianwhat does that even mean
>>50007540No vegans will ever possibly respond to this. If they do, they'll blatantly ignore the content of the post and go "b-but muh dirt muhfucka" "DA COWS TAKE B12 SUPPLEMENTS MUHFUCKA"
>>50007540>>50007744Vegan here. I acknowledge that my diet would have been difficult to impossible many years ago (though it is worth noting that B12 content in soul has declined as a result of industrial agriculture so your numbers may be off slightly, in addition it’s worth noting that 40% of the US population as a whole are B12 deficient).But it’s 2019 and I can easily supplement B12. Appeal to nature is a fallacy.
>>50007909>Appeal to nature is a fallacy.no it isnt lol, there is a natural order and it is superior
>>50002474Actually animal products are detrimental to cardiovascular health and with poor cardio health comes ED
>>50007909>I see your millions if not billions of years of evolutionary reality and raise you an "appeal to nature.">gg better luck next time kiddo
>>50002643You don't know shit about nutrition.Fat has essential fat soluble vitamins that are only found in animal products like vitamin D3, A (retinol) and K2
>>50002696Do you use plant oils?
Lancet is not to be trustedThey came out earlier this year with EAT-Lancet, a proposal for drastically reducing animal proteins, and becoming mostly vegetarian. They were pretty quickly exposed as being backed by basically every processed food giant, for example, Nestle.They have been attacking Keto, because there is no place for processed food in a Keto diet, but you can go Vegan and live entirely on processed food. FFS, Oreo's are considered vegan.Anyway, who cares vegan VS Keto VS paleo VS Medeterranian.The real argument should be unprocessed food vs processed food, and you will always be healthier removing processed food from your diet.
>>50008740Its very important. One diet is killing a bunch of animals to destroy your heart in the long run, the other is healing your heart.In 20 years if people can keep keto up, then they will find themselves dropping dead.Yeah, vegans do have heart attack sometimes so don't post that shitty idian genetic piece of trash image.Every food is processed. Oreo's are probably less processed than meat. Most meat is fed grain, had been genetically engineered to grow unnatural big, are pumped full of anti-biotics.
>>50006098Oh no u deh ehnt
>>50002380First Post = Best Post
>>50008814Based low IQ poster
>>50002370>ThoughtsManipulated "Science" and "Statistics" from a group of oligarchs' puppets meant to gaslight you into a docile, subservient glorified slave laborer that will cost as little as possible to upkeep while still producing enough for the oligarchs to live well off of.
>>50008740>because there is no place for processed food in a Keto diet>the diet that literally puts bacon in their cookbook coversokay kid
>>50002547I was waiting for this, I’ve literally never seen a human being with a face more like that meme
>>50008940There's that one goblina from the /fph/ threads that looks pretty close, too.
>>50008903Bacon is pretty much just straight pork belly preserved with Salt.And you understand that salt preservation has existed pretty much forever.
>>50008903Every look at what is in the 'Beyond Meat' vegan burger?pea protein isolate, expeller-pressed canola oil, refined coconut oil, water, yeast extract, maltodextrin, natural flavors, gum arabic, sunflower oil, salt, succinic acid, acetic acid, non-GMO modified food starch, cellulose from bamboo, methylcellulose, potato starch, beet juice extract (for color), ascorbic acid (to maintain color), annatto extract (for color), citrus fruit extract (to maintain quality), vegetable glycerin.You wanna know whats in a beef burger? it should be one ingredient: Beef
>>50008903>>50008814And you understand that when I spoke of 'processing', I am referring to the industrial processing of food. Sure you can argue that we are using a feedlot cow to do industrial processing of cellulose, or grain-fed cow to do industrial processing of pasture cellulose.And when you are chewing food, you are 'processing' it.but these are all stupid semantic arguments.
>>50009137Fucking this.If I read a nutrition label and it has more than three ingredients, I put that shit back.And those extra two ingredients better be preservatives or seasoning.
>>50008881imagine being on the same level as flat-earthers and anti-vaxxers
>>50009228Imagine posting an ad hominem because you know anon is right. Enjoy your lentils and kosher s.o.y.l.e.n.t. BTW the boss needs you to stay late again tomorrow while he fucks your wife.
The more I lift the more I steer towards keto. I feel good about supporting my local farms. I hope they don't hire shitskins. I hear some are full of em.
there are two kinds of parentsomnivoresthose in prison for killing their kids with veganism
>>50009859Keto doesn't necessarily mean processed meats either so i'm confused on where OP's statement meant all keto/paleos eat processed meat.
>>50003240Normal blood markers after 2 months of keto
>>50006950did you unironically respond to my joke about cavemen eating sheep's wool?
>>50002370Yeah how come he look like a literal mutant (toxic avenger kind not Panini kind) if eating vegan is so healthy and awesome?He got the same slightly off look to him like that HENCH HERBIVORE guy also got (who is also vegan and I think also frauding natty)At least this guy dont got his ears below his nose but idk he looks severely malnourished or like he got scurvt or smthI felt like shit after eating vegan for a while, lacto ovo is ok but full vegan sucks ass balls imho
>>50002390What could go wrong?
>>50003434Anon asks for vegans that dont look like shit>>50003452>>50003479Vegan Anon posts literal mumified skeletons. By his own admission one of them is "the healthiest a vegan can be"Never change #vegans. Your diet is on par with the carrot juicers of the 80's - A self destructive fad. Consider checking into a hospital for self harming and having an eating disorder.
>>50002528Just another anemic looking sickly vegan.
>>50002499>people overdo fast food>get sick>shit livesIts totally the fat, guys.
>>50002370I think everyone should have the luck of being able to observe Chad living for a complete week. Then you would know the optimal diet and lifestyle. Unironically observe details about people and correlate them with their habits.
>>50003479protip he's dead. He just took his sweet time unlike most vegans who seem to be in a hurry.
>>50010930Its the carbsThe milkshakethe 60 teaspoons of sugar in a slurpeethe friesthe sugar in the ketchupthe bun