0xBTC hater and infinite tool David Hoffman pwned by Infernal_Toast, then comes back like a little bitch. pic relatedhow is it possible that people listen to the podcast of a moron like David Hoffman ???if you want to succeed, probably just do the opposite of what he says.
This is an example of self-aware demoralization
>>14725041> self-aware demoralizationhmm, i'm interested in the term you're using, but i don't quite get it. please help a sperg understand.
more info https://twitter.com/TrustlessState/status/1148953553840377857
>>14724977Where exactly is the pwning?0xBTC is useless. Ask yourself, what is the function of hashpower on BTC? Then ask yourself, what is the function of hashpower on 0xBTC? It's just busywork which provides no value except allowing "miners" to dump on the ignorant. WBTC is centralized shit but even that has more value than 0xBTC.
>>14725189sure thing Dave
>>14725189mining on bitcoin is literally "just busywork" if it isn't why does difficulty increase? you fuggen twat. listen to yourself.
>>14725253So what's the use of mining 0xBTC? What value does the mining process create?
>>14724977> h-haha look my fellow redditors, a twitter fight, epic pwning of haters!!!> p-please buy my fork of a fork bootleg chuck-e-cheez token, it's so unique compared to the other 200 all promising the same shit or better> please ignore the large amounts of wash trading> it's totally not me, the same solo desperate bagholder that posts 0xbtc shit every few weeks and it gets laughed off the board every time
>>14725287mining actual bitcoin yes, not some gay solidty script on a communist centralized blockchain.
>>14725287It's not busywork. It's securing the network. You've had ten years to figure this out.0xBTC is a useless token with an inefficient distribution mechanism. Nothing more.
>>14725189>>14725334Miners mine bitcoin to get more bitcoin. In the process the network is secured but without the mining reward nobody would care about network security, miners are not some kind of noble gentlemen fighting the establishment.
>>14725295>So what's the use of mining 0xBTC? What value does the mining process create?this is a hard concept, so i'm not going to hate on you for not getting it right away, but think about it.mining is what imbues a mineable with value. mining is the provable destruction of one form of value so that people agree the thing mined has the value of that thing destroyed. mining converts ordered energy measured in the form of watt-hours of electricity used, into waste heat, an operation which is not reversible (at least not at any scale). the SHA3 hash is proof that the computation was performed (i.e., that the value of one thing was destroyed), since the only way to get the SHA3 hash is, according to everything we know about math, is to do the computation, therefore to consume the electricity, therefore to destroy one value and imbue another thing with that value.sure, it is a weird thing for humans to get together and agree that this is what constitutes value, but you can't cheat it, and that's what's valued above all. exactly like BTC. similar to digging gold out of the earth. it's an ancient concept reimagined and understood in a new context.BTC also uses the hashpower to secure the network. 0xBTC outsources that job to Ethereum. that's what makes it brilliant. that's what will prevent 0xBTC from becoming only a store of value like BTC. transaction fees in BTC are denominated in the store of value itself, so transaction fees rise and rise. but Ethereum is just gas, it is not supposed to be a store of value.
>>14725445>the only way to get the SHA3 hash* the only way to get the SHA3 hash that is low enough to satisfy the current miningTarget
>>14725445Your attempts at feigned superiority are not going to work. You are describing why mining has value to BTC, which is not relevant to 0xBTC.Mining bitcoin has value because it ensures nobody can double-spend or steal bitcoin.Mining 0xBTC has no value because the Ethereum miners ensure nobody can double-spend of steal 0xBTC.> 0xBTC outsources that job to Ethereumwhich makes 0xBTC mining completely irrelevant. 0xBTC is just another bitcoin clone - its only unique feature is that it was implemented as an ERC20 token.
>>14724977He’s not wrong. It’s a shittoken. Invented on /biz/. You gonna trust the future of tech to the retards on this board? Everything that gets invented here is a get rich quick scheme by the devs and some early /biz/ shills. 0xBTC, TRTL, BRAPP. There are a couple more I’m forgetting. Fun to play casino with them but ultimately they are what they are, and they are not going to last.
>>14725590>Invented on /biz/.you just lost all credibility. anyone can go verify this is not true within a few minutes.
>>14725541every 0xbtc was gotten by burning energy for it. you can't just print them. there's enforced digital scarcity and no way to steal its value via inflation, and all the advantages of being an erc20. it doesn't take that much to be a good currency, and 0xbtc is already vastly better than things we already use for money.
>>14725647I know all of this. It doesn't change the fact that 0xBTC is a useless shitcoin with an inefficient distribution method.If you want an SoV, buy one of the many SoVs that exist on Ethereum. If you want something that will not lose of all its value if Ethereum fails, buy BTC.
>>14725852all you're saying is that for some reason, you don't believe in the value of 0xbtc. that's fine, we're not going to ask you for permission before we use it as money. you seem to think that the value of something is in the thing, rather than in your own mind.
>>14725541>which makes 0xBTC mining completely irrelevant. 0xBTC is just another bitcoin clone - its only unique feature is that it was implemented as an ERC20 token.i would say you've hit the nail on the head, sort of, in one respect: 0xBTC is "just" another Bitcoin clone. yeah, it is as faithful a Bitcoin clone as you could hope to get w.r.t. the value-proof mechanism. and it's on Ethereum, the world's best distributed trustless computer.but please read my post again if you can somehow continue to believe "which makes 0xBTC mining completely irrelevant". you don't get all of what makes mining valuable.0xBitcoin is purer in the value-proof sense than Bitcoin. it is just provable destruction using `keccak256(challengeNumber, msg.sender, nonce) ≤ miningTarget`, which cannot be faked.Bitcoin's limitation is that it also mixes securing the network into the value, muddying the value proposition and leading to the types of problems you see in the cost of sending it.but the fact that 0xBitcoin is more pure in the value-proof sense doesn't mean that it is automatically "better" than Bitcoin. who knows. the value will rise with time as more people come to understand it -- or more likely, they will just take their cues from the herd without really understanding it -- or not enough people will buy into the idea, and the value won't rise. predictions like that would be easy to make, but dumb. we just have to wait and see.the thing that's provably the case is that there currently are a bunch of people certifying their belief in 0xBitcoin by mining it. the proof is there in every `mint(uint256 nonce, bytes32 challenge_digest) ` call to the 0xBitcoin smart contract, which is regulated unchangeably by the contract to about 1 block mined (50 0xBitcoin) every 10 minutes, just like Bitcoin, using `keccak256(challengeNumber, msg.sender, nonce) ≤ miningTarget ` just like it should.
LURKERS & NEWFAGS BEWARE - 0xBITCOIN WAS A BIZ PND THAT THOUSANDS OF ANONS GOT BURNT ON IN 20180xBitcoin was a /biz/ invented FPGA miner scam token. Almost everywhere online 0xBTC threads are deleted, ie plebbit, its that big of a scam. The actual daily 24hr volume on 0xBTC is under $10,000 - CMC reported volume is 95% wash tradingDon't believe me then buy $300 worth of 0xBTC and watch the price move by 20%Around the time that these miners were pumping 0xBTC they shilled /biz/ CONSTANTLY with it.There was at least 15-25 spam threads about it daily up until they dumped their bags on all the anons buying in. It was a coordinated pump and dump and these 0xBTC scamming faggots think that /biz/ has forgotten about what they did. Lots of anons were fooled into buying it at $2-$4.Now there are tons of bag holders of this shitcoin and ALL of the 0xBTC threads on /biz/ are made by these miner faggots where they coordinate /biz/ shilling in their 0xBitcoin discord. This project has a better chance of always being worthless than even worth $5. No one will really tell you the truth about this scam because so many ppl were suckered into buying it on /biz/ Truth is, not many ppl are smart and wise to scams and it takes a high IQ to realize that 0xBTC is a miners scam token. What's more is the FPGA miners mining this shit are now only making about $0.08/0xBTC and it keeps dropping.It's incredibly not profitable for anyone besides FPGA fags to mine this shit. Don't fall for this fucking miner scam token, its always going to be worthless. >entirely community driven>zero money for marketing or exchange listings>scam artists for devs - who literally orchestrated a pump and dump on bizlets >miner shill faggots who constantly spam threads about it bc they are so desperate for you to buy their bags because LITERALLY NO ONE IS BUYING THIS SHIT ANYMOREWhat's more is that 0xBitcoin DOESNT EVEN PUMP WITH LEGACY BITCOIN!! >do not reply to 0xbtc shill posters
>>14726085>0xBitcoin was a /biz/ invented FPGA miner scam token.haha, glad you could join in. haven't seen you for a while, i thought you might have been involuntarily committed for your own protection. 0xbitcoin haters are really forming a dream team of top minds lately
>>14726046>but the fact that 0xBitcoin is more pure in the value-proof sense doesn't mean that it is automatically "better" than Bitcoinalso, i'm not mad at Satoshi for mixing the proof-of-value and securing-of-network concepts together in Bitcoin. he didn't have a global distributed trustless computer like Ethereum available to him at the time. so he blended it all into one (tho not turing complete), which was fine. still brilliant.now we have Ethereum, so we can have pure proof-of-value mined cryptocurrencies like 0xBitcoin. 0xBitcoin has first-mover advantage in the Ethereum domain (actually mined with PoW, not fake stuff that just borrows the "Bitcoin" name but not its proof-of-value mechanism).but Bitcoin is still a great store-of-value coin. it got first-mover advantage. it's just not good for anything but slow, high-value payments due to transaction fees.
>>14726085>0xBitcoin was a /biz/ invented FPGA miner scam token.welcome back, FPGA schizo dude. why were you gone for more than 72 hours, i thought they legally had to release you after that ????
>>14725321Yeah that's absolute brainlet tier0xbtc is a total shitcoin but it is actually trustless, unlike wbtc.
>>14726356>shitcoinplease use words that actually mean something so we know your thoughts, since that is the point of communication
>>14724977i think 0xbtc mining is pretty centralized
>>14726356>0xbtc is a total shitcoin>>14726356>0xbtc is a total shitcoinif you don't see the value yet, think harder. at least try to explain why this is wrong instead of just saying "total shitcoin":1) mining is proof-of-value: it imparts the value of the consumed, irrecoverable energy to the thing being mined, and does so in a provable way since `keccak256(challengeNumber, msg.sender, nonce) ≤ miningTarget` cannot be faked. everyone agrees that is the rule of the game.2) 0xBitcoin borrows proof-of-value-via-mining from Bitcoin, but gets its security-of-network by running on Ethereum. therefore it has the value mechanism of Bitcoin without its transaction limitations.just try. have an open mind and think through it carefully.
>>14725608Ok. Also, welcome to /biz/. I can see you're new here :)
>>14727122>baseddo you think "based" means "full of shit"? the second line says "/biz/ invented". that's wrong.
>>14727031>i think 0xbtc mining is pretty centralizedplease explain how you can possibly think this is true.remember that the hashpower of 0xBitcoin mining pools, of which there are or have been about a dozen-ish, has no relevance to the security of the network. that's unlike Bitcoin, where a sufficiently large mining pool can do a 51% attack. so large pools are no threat to centralization.besides, look at the mining distributions.https://0xbtc.info/richlist/miners
>>14727257>besides, look at the mining distributions.
>>14725332you sound like a complete pedophile
>>14727356nice, this is the type of substantive argument other people can learn a lot from
>>14725189just curious, did you read this yet, and do you have a response?>this is a hard concept, so i'm not going to hate on you for not getting it right away, but think about it.>mining is what imbues a mineable with value. mining is the provable destruction of one form of value so that people agree the thing mined has the value of that thing destroyed. mining converts ordered energy measured in the form of watt-hours of electricity used, into waste heat, an operation which is not reversible (at least not at any scale). the SHA3 hash is proof that the computation was performed (i.e., that the value of one thing was destroyed), since the only way to get the SHA3 hash is, according to everything we know about math, is to do the computation, therefore to consume the electricity, therefore to destroy one value and imbue another thing with that value.>sure, it is a weird thing for humans to get together and agree that this is what constitutes value, but you can't cheat it, and that's what's valued above all. exactly like BTC. similar to digging gold out of the earth. it's an ancient concept reimagined and understood in a new context.>BTC also uses the hashpower to secure the network. 0xBTC outsources that job to Ethereum. that's what makes it brilliant. that's what will prevent 0xBTC from becoming only a store of value like BTC. transaction fees in BTC are denominated in the store of value itself, so transaction fees rise and rise. but Ethereum is just gas, it is not supposed to be a store of value.
>>14726085Lol bag holders it was on 4chan since the start, I'm guessing u are new hello and welcome, u enjoying the brapps and link agains cos the £4 moon mission was way before the link pump so I hope u at least got a nice stack at 0.40p if not then you are just stupid and should kill yourself lol wanker.
>>14727967wow u are so british. u must be so cool and british to use words like wanker and use pounds.
>>14727990Yeah I'm a toff living in north west london and I drink red at a Sam Smith's pub
thanks brap fags for the 10eth. i put half into 0xbtc
>>14728025nobody gives a single shit. shut up and fuck off.
>>14728025>>14728099please stay and give us your british perspective on 0xbitcoin
If youre unable to look at the bitcoin whitepaper and determine what the useful properties of Bitcoin are and why its stong money and how that relates to 0xBitcoin you might be an NPC.
>>14728123this thread is dead. there is notbing to talk about with 0xbitcoin because its not adopted as a currency and liquidity is shit due to it not being used to buy and sell real goods and being on so few exchanges. it is virtually useless as money. when you change that reality there will be something to discuss. until then, this coin is doing nothing and will do nothing forever and ever and ever. just be mined and sold in to an order book thinner than the encyclopedia of italian war heroes. fuck off back to your discord and discuss how to make a silkroad for 0xbtc instead of wasting your time here arguing about sha3 with these hentai consuming pedophiles.
>>14728176bitcoin is useful because it has multiple fiat on-ramps and off-ramps in multiple countries, allowing it to be used as a liquid money laundering and cross border unstoppable money transmission currency. also you can buy drugs with it on the internet because it has the afformentioned liquid fiat on and offramps.0xbitcoin has none of that, just a bunch of scared nerds. fucking pussies the lot of them. ross ulbricht would be ashamed.
>>14728176>muh whitepaperyou're completely missing the fucking point nerd.
>>14728123I like it, was around from the start, good people, fun project, I think too many people wanna get rich asap, and dont wanna wait and see what happens, it's only been around for coming up to 2 years. Spend a few pounds on it and hold it see what happens I say. Its 25p a coin spend a bendz or a score, that is beer money.
>>14728217>>14728273>>14728292you must have bought the top to be this angry.you sound like a critic of Bitcoin in 2011.>its not useful now so it wont be useful ever!thats you; a caveman finding gold.
>>14728217>>14728273>>14728292ror @ pro complainersorry for not changing your diaper fast enough
>>14728326'ave a sossij sarny mate shove it up your bum hole innit
>>14728217> encyclopedia of italian war heroesok that was funny. but anyway.this is the same thing people said about BTC in 2010. "it's worthless ... can't buy anything with it ... useless as money"it's useless as money until it's not. the thing is, are you going to be in the evangelical early adopter group, or in the group of people kicking themselves, forever.if you can evaluate 0xBitcoin on its actual merits and see how little it has standing in its way -- namely "it hasn't been adopted ... yet" -- , then good for you. you can get in there, invest early, help build it, and profit. if you can't, too bad. most people are in the latter group.
>>14728328>>14728344you people have no actual counter argument. just reply with nonsense. yes well done. but 0xbitcoin is completely shit compared to btc for the reasons i just outlined. i cannot cash out 0xbitcoin in ghana. i cannot buy anything useful with 0xbitcoin. it is thusly useless compared to real bitcoin
>>14728376>help build it,by "help build it" i mean make a web store that accepts 0xBitcoin, or something like that. fuck, a browser extension that lets you send 0xBitcoin to someone if they have a certain `<meta>` tag in their page. a discord tip bot, anything.i don't mean competing in the shillwar special olympics.
>>14728387the counter argument is that we don't have a magical godlike ability to make things happen instantly. i think you have a pretty thick skull that you need this explained. we released a payment gateway last week. we are constantly applying to exchanges. it takes time. we are unapologetically not on your schedule.
0xBTC is comfy as fuck.. toast is a genius and most community members are 120+ IQ.
>>14728387>i cannot cash out 0xbitcoin in ghana. i cannot buy anything useful with 0xbitcoinagain, this is EXACTLY what people said about Bitcoin from 2010 until embarrassingly late (even today).your argument is the last defense when all others have failed. "but no adoption"
I am filling my bags as we speak
>>14728446no. it really isn't. you could use bitcoin to buy things almost immediately. you fucking newfag. and its always had good fiat/btc liquidity. 0xbitcoin has none of that. >>14728421>help build itwhy? i hold hardly any of this shitcoin. someone with more OF it should put some work in.
>>14728387>you people have no actual counter argument. just reply with nonsense. yes well done. but 0xbitcoin is completely shit compared to btc for the reasons i just outlined. i cannot cash out 0xbitcoin in ghana. i cannot buy anything useful with 0xbitcoin. it is thusly useless compared to real bitcoin
>>14728485more like heavy bags since time. your not fooling anyone shill. anyone can see the orders are static apart from wash trading
>>14728499>no. it really isn't. you could use bitcoin to buy things almost immediately. you fucking newfag. and its always had good fiat/btc liquidity.no you couldn't. you don't remember because you were still learning how to shit by all by yourself like a big boi then, but when Bitcoin was new, it was near-impossible to use to buy normal things. look up bitcoin pizza.
>>14728501yes humans dont give a shit about it. thats whats stopping it. and the communities plan to change that is....nothing. they have no plan. the community is just miners mining and dumping in to thin order books.
>>14728545you're delusional. people who hang out in the discord know activity is increasing and progress is being made.
>>14728534nobody cares about those days. im talking about the silkroad days, what gave bitcoin VALUE was the fact you could buy a kilo of indian long shard ketamine with it from the safety of your bedroom. 0xbitcoin is useless
>>14728577no. you are delusional. you discord trannies sucking each other off about some new wallet is not going to make anyone give a shit about the coin
>>14728580dude someone will eventually get around to changing your diaper, please be patient
>>14728601you are gay
>>14728645i make stuff like payment gateways, you make noise
>>14728680all I can see is shilling and shitposting though
>>14728680what payment gateway? why would anyone use 0xbitcoin to buy anything? why would anyone sane accept 0xbitcoin for payment when you cant even cash it out to fiat without exchanging it for another crypto like BTC? are you mentally challenged?
>>14728708>all I can see is shilling and shitposting thoughthere is undeniably some shilling and shitposting going on. that sucks. better to make substantive arguments and try to build. but the fact that there are some loweffort shills spouting low signal messages doesn't detract from the substance of the real message.
>>14728713i think if you try really hard you might be able to find it.>>14728708sorry if you have a reading disability.
>>14728749sorry if you have a logical thinking disability
>>14728680You don't though. While he makes noise, you pretend that this is anything but another shitcoin doomed to die, and then get upset when people educate you - so of course your reaction is to double down with a retarded coder larp to try and stave off the oncoming BSOD in that little cockroach brain of yours.
>>14728743nobody cares about your message. the coin itself is fundamentaly pointless as money. dont you get it? if you soent less time sniffing your intellectual farts and more time trying to increase liquidity this coin would become a useful medium of exchange. but instead the community is brain dead. and the coin is still born.
>>14728713we already went over the fact that you have to build the technology for it to exist. Are you mentally challenged? 0xBitcoin is a bet on Bitcoins properties on Ethereum. Its pretty clear you cant reason about economic properties of assets and instead are stuck on the fact you cant buy a coffee and the liquidity is too small for you to cash out your dozens of hundred dollar bags. The rest of us are trying to have a discussion on technology and economics and its pretty clear you need a high chair to sit at that table.
>>14728580>nobody cares about those daystimewise, those are the days you're talking about for 0xBitcoin. the days when it's all potential with nothing going against it except "no adoption [yet]"
>>14728801no adoption and nobody working on adoption either
>>14728785>if you soent less time sniffing your intellectual farts and more time trying to increase liquidity this coin would become a useful medium of exchange.i believe you increase liquidity by bringing more people to the party. and i believe you do that by making the best arguments you can against mindless hater NPCs, by putting orders on the books, and by building things for 0xBitcoin.
>>14728799it has none of bitcoins properties. the main proterty of bitcoin that makes it a useful thing to have is that i can exchange it for fiat in 212 countries without too much hassle. 0xbitcoin is yet another shitcoin because to get real money you have to sell it for btc first. if there was anyone in the community with even a slight understanding of the fundamental economics of money maybe the price wouldnt be in the gutter but it is because you're all fucking high inhibition autistic idiots
These 0xbtc threads are so fucking bullish, gotta put yet another $1000 tomorrow
>>14727886> just curious, did you read this yet, and do you have a response?Yeah, started replying then deleted it because there is no point. 0xBTC fans either drank the koolaid and are blindly optimistic, or are just trying to sell their holdings to the greater fool.>mining is what imbues a mineable with value.This is the root cause of the error in your thinking. Mining does not imbue value on its own. Mining can only increase the cost of obtaining something that has inherent value.I'm not some Luddite who doesn't get that energy expenditure can be considered a way of generating transferable value. It's simply that 0xBTC is just another BTC clone and nothing in that long, long list has a viable value proposition.0xBTC is inferior to BTC, and inferior to at least five SoV ERC20s. A trustless BTC<->ETH bridge will render it immediately useless, at which point it might as well be called 0xBSV.
>>14728808i just told you a payment gateway was released. how can you say nobody's working on adoption?
>>14728856stop pretending to buy 0xbtc you idiot. i can go on the exchanges myself and see that you are lying
>>14728859nobody gives a fucking shit about your payment gateway. because you cant exchange 0xbitcoin for fiat anywhere in the world spastic
>>14728858>inherent valueno such thing.
>>14728871I said tomorrow, I get my salary and vacation money and I'm gonna buy some fucking 0xbtc because of you retards make me so goddamn bullish.
>>14728908true, there is no such thing. but 0xbtc doesnt even have subjective value. it has vague speculative value. its basically a bet on wether 0xbtc whales and the shitty community has any balls at all. and its a very unlikely bet
>>14728858>It's simply that 0xBTC is just another BTC clone and nothing in that long, long list has a viable value proposition.>0xBTC is inferior to BTC, and inferior to at least five SoV ERC20s.ok well thanks for replying.are the "five SoV ERC20s" you're talking about mineable? are they mined as much as 0xBTC? (rhetorical question, i know they aren't.)a trustless BTC<->ETH bridge would be cool. there is nothing to show that this is possible, and everything to show that existing attempts are infected with centralization.
>>14728920enjoy losing money then you moron
>>14728845>it has none of bitcoins propertiesyep brain dead status: confirmedit took years to get Bitcoin at that status and its certainly not its most important property. Most of those countries wouldnt accept ETH, so I guess thats useless too. Adoption takes time.
>>14728973enjoy watching me becoming a multimillionaire with $1000
>>14725647you're either a fucking sub 90 iq brainlet or a financial criminal promoting something that is illegal on many different levels and is designed as a cash grab using bitcoin's branding and false equivalences
>>14728976>it will happen all by itself because we have bitcoin in the name and we made it like bitcoinbut the 0xbitcoin community is a shower of gutless nerds who can't organise anything to save their lives tossing each other off on a discord server, while bitcoin had visionaries and pioneers.
>>14728858>0xBTC fans either drank the koolaid and are blindly optimistic"blindly optimistic" would imply that they are optimistic while ignoring the things going against it. there's nothing standing in the way of 0xBitcoin except a lack of adoption so far. that is inherent to new things. but having little standing in the way, that is not something many projects have (a monarchy, a premine, an as-yet-to-be-tested value proposition, etc.).
>>14728994hello! you seem unwell. please seek treatment at a local medical facility.
>>14728994>financial criminal promoting something that is illegal on many different levelswhat are you even talking about. do you just string words together? you're not thinking.
>>14729028actually maybe you should change your own diaper
>>14725073Using facebook or google because you badly want a service they offer, despite being aware of the privacy implications, is self-aware demoralization. It's a strange one because I hate biGoogle brother with a passion but their maps and image search are the best out there. And most cannot live without youtube.Duckduckgo gets the normal searches done. But damn do i have jealousy for those who are OK with google being a peeping tom and building a personal file on you for every site you visit.
>>14729122>Using facebook or google because you badly want a service they offer, despite being aware of the privacy implications, is self-aware demoralizationok, i see. david hoffman is like, "i will use this centralized piece of shit because it's the only way i can get Bitcoin mechanics on Ethereum", so he is aware he is using something despite his fundamental dislike of some aspect of it. therefore, self-aware demoralization. so, useful term.
>>14728858>Mining can only increase the cost of obtaining something that has inherent valuewould you say Bitcoin had "inherent value" (whatever that is) on day 1, 30, or 365?does water have "inherent value"? i paid $400 to get a few hundred gallons of it removed from my hallway. but at a concert i paid $3 for less than a liter.so ... define "inherent" value
>>14728785>if you soent less time sniffing your intellectual farts and more time trying to increase liquidity this coin would become a useful medium of exchange.curious, what would you do toward the goal of increasing liquidity? you seem pretty defeatist to me. but maybe you have some kind of plan. so what is it?
>>14727136that’s interesting but value doesn’t just come from what it cost to make, people have to find it valuable subjectively as well. if i continually dig holes and fill them in again, that isn’t something people would find valuable enough to pay me for. that said, if 0xbtc takes off then the cost of mining does become part of its value. there’s a bit of chicken and the egg. i’ve been on the edge of buying a small bag for a while and this thread has been pretty useful. what’s the best and least scammy exchange to buy on?
>>14729869>that said, if 0xbtc takes off then the cost of mining does become part of its value. there’s a bit of chicken and the egg.mining doesn't "become a part of its value". the amount of money that someone is willing to spend to mine one 0xBitcoin (well, the cost of mining a block divided by 50, since 50 0xBTC is the block reward for now) is close to its currently perceived value, assuming a rational miner, but the value itself is subjective, just like you said. so, not trying to split hairs too much, but i disagree that it's a chicken-and-egg situation with respect to cost of mining. i know it's a subtle difference, and i do agree with you that ultimately the value is subjective.for example, right now i can mine with a CPU miner [CPU mining is not practical anymore] and spend like $10,000 mining one block of 50 0xBTC, but that doesn't mean my mining determines the value. i'm just being not being a rational miner in that case.belief that 0xBTC fills a need (a mineable [proof-of-value], low-transaction-cost [fees paid in ETH, not the underlying mineable] token that can interact with smart contracts on currently the world's best distributed trustless computer [Ethereum]), that is what determines the subjective value.
>>14729869sry, i didn't answer the actual question. somebody else did: uniswap. it's supposedly pretty good. i bought and sold a lot on mercatox when that was the only option.
>>14730154its kinda a chicken and egg in that its value is entirely determined by its demand. It just so happens theres two ways to meet the demand: mining and buying. For some people the opportunity cost is worth it because they already have hardware and a desire to own (and trade) the asset. other people see an opportunity to buy hardware and sell it because they perceive others wanting the asset. Others see the properties of the asset being favourable in addition to the work being done on it and buy and hold (or swing trade). The only reason to mine is because its value is determined by the market which in turn depends on demand.
>>14730154>mining doesn't "become a part of its value"it's really hard to phrase right. i like to say that mining imbues the mineable with value. but mining is actually just proof that you believe it has a certain value. it doesn't somehow force others to believe the same, therefore it doesn't directly set the value somehow. sorry for splitting hairs, always trying to refine the language for talking about a subtle topic.
>>14730338>The only reason to mine is because its value is determined by the market which in turn depends on demandi agree.
>>14730338>It just so happens theres two ways to meet the demand: mining and buyingkind of an interesting thing is that mining is basically the ultimate decentralized exchange. it turns ever power outlet on the planet into a potential provably-paid exchange, assuming you have a GPU or other piece of hardware that can mine at a price acceptable to you.
>>14730368I like to think mining only is a method of distribution through energy auction. (for 0xbtc at least, it can also double as security) mining is also a measure of demand. >>14730447mining is like the perfect DEX in that its an energy auction and the seller is mathematics and trustless and auditable.
>>14730653>mining is like the perfect DEX in that its an energy auction and the seller is mathematics and trustless and auditable.nice concise way to put it. i wish people in the crypto world broadly understood that mindblowing concept. it's just too new a concept, so right now we have people buying coins and tokens imbued with "value" only by the promises of ICO teams and their crystal-ball roadmaps. as it stands, "mineable" is constantly perceived as "omg that's inherently bad and wasteful".
>>14730653>mining is like the perfect DEX
>>14728217>there is notbing to talk about with 0xbitcoin because its not adopted as a currency and liquidity is shit due to it not being used to buy and sell real goods and being on so few exchanges
>>14725189Mining isn't a necessity for security with 0xBitcoin. It still operates with the same mining functions actions such as difficulty changes and reward per block or halving every 4 years. It's Bitcoin in a smart contract that is forever locked. No single person owns the contract. Infernal_toast deployed it. >>14725295Competition just like with Bitcoin. Miners mine and essentially compete to earn that 50 0xBitcoin per block by finding the correct nonce. It just doesn't need mining to keep it afloat. Ethereum the network it lives on, secures it. ETH was never meant to be used as the defacto currency for the network. It doesn't even interact or can interact with ERC-20 tokens on its network. 0xBitcoin is trustless pure mined hard currency on the Ethereum network without a central owner. What creates value or could create value would be ERC-20 compatible dApps. >>14725445This.