This thread is for the discussion of Speculative Evolution and Biology.Old thread : >>3041511>Definition of spec evo: Speculative evolution, also called speculative biology and speculative zoology, is a genre of speculative fiction and an artistic movement, focused on hypothetical scenarios in the evolution of life.Resources :https://speculativeevolution.fandom.com/wiki/Category:TutorialReccomended Projects: https://sites.google.com/site/worldofserina/ >A world colonized by Canaries, Sunflowers and othershttp://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5694942/1/>A Chinese cave with very strange inhabitantshttp://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/8050626/1/ >An Antarctic island home to strange lovecraftian creatures https://specevo.jcink.net/index.php?showtopic=67>The Seychelles are a collection of miraculous islands, carrying a precious cargo of life from vanished world. But what if the Granitic Seychelles were merely the mountain peaks of a much larger island? What strange life might call such an island home?https://www.deviantart.com/biofauna25/gallery/39451145/Epimethius>Several hundred lightyears from Earth, the planet Epimethius is remarkably similar in its composition, but it is larger, has greater weather extremes, is subject to frequent solar radiation storms, and full of bizarre life forms. https://www.deviantart.com/dragonthunders/gallery/49884273/The-Future-Is-Far>Be the spectators of the history of life on earth in the next million of years in the future.https://www.deviantart.com/herofan135/gallery/45327524/The-urban-future>This project takes place 10 million years into the future, in a world were the entire planet consists of one giant city.
>>3076881When is he going to finish SerinaaaAAAAAAAHHHHH
whats the worst spec evo project you guys could ever think of?i will startterraformed world with toadlines
>>3078883You post this exact post in every thread. Notepic of you
hey /se/ could something remain permanently in flight? I'm trying to draw some aliens for a sky-planet kinda thing
>>3081294Swifts already do, except for laying eggs they spend all their life in the air.
>>3081318could i have serpent or fish like creatures that fly?
>>3081348If your planet has a thick atmosphere and low gravity, you could get away with creatures with unusual wing configurations, as they would be kind of "swimming" in the air. The moon Titan is a good example of this, a human could fly there just by flapping their arms with a couple of wooden planks attached.
>>3081377Titan could be worth looking into thats a good idea anon, what about a venus-like world though?
>>3081397Venus is another world with a thick atmosphere, but higher gravity. I guess in this case creatures could become airborne by filling their bodies with low density gasses, like hydrogen. Of course both Venus and Titan are hostile to life as we know it, I only set them as examples of planets with atmospheres and gravities were creatures could have an easier time flying. There was a documentary made in the UK in 2005 called "Extraterrestrial" that explores 2 fictional alien planets, one of them a moon filled with aerial lifeforms like skywhales and floating plants, maybe that could give you some ideas. You can find it on youtube for free but in terrible quality.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraterrestrial_(TV_program)
>>3081422this helps, thank you anon
How do we build a bigger bug?The main thing limiting an insects size is it's inefficient lungs and needing to molt it's exoskeleton.I don't know how you'd fix the arthropods respiration (or lack thereof) but even if you do that you'll only get them back up to carboniferous sizes, How would an arthropod overcome the size limitations of needing to molt?
>>3082162If molting could be done piecemeal instead of all at once, it would cut down on the vulnerability immensely. And then it would need to protect whatever part, i.e. a limb, was freshly molted at the moment, and that could add up.Alternatively, a somewhat porous exoskeleton that allows flesh to grow through to the outside. After a certain point, the exterior soft parts grow a new exoskeleton, and the old exoskeleton, now an endoskeleton, may be retained for added structural support for a while and/or reabsorbed.
would a spec evo project disguised as an arg work?
Tell me if this idea has been done before: A "dual species". The male's testes produce two kinds of sperm. The female's ovaries produce two kinds of eggs. After sex and gestation the female gives birth to a litter of offspring of two different 'species'. For example, perhaps one is a flying species and the other a water-dwelling species. The variants can interspecies mate or intraspecies mate.Entertain the general idea of a "dual species", don't get caught up in anything scientifically inaccurate I've said.
>have ideas for project>have pictures ready>start writing the introduction post>can only fit in 500 words before i cant write anything elseWhat the fuck do i do now?
Shitty drawfag here. Gimmie some requests. I'm >>3084207
>>3084227wing walking bird speciesaka birds that walk by their wings bat styled
I want to believe dinosaurs can be recreated from mammals.
>>3084407Nope, mammal tails are extremely weak, which is why almost all of them walk on all fours. They just have nothing to balance themselves with like the dinosaurs did.
>>3084426But birds just have a shitty pygostyle and they walk on two legs.
Obligatory birrin post.
>>3084432Because the bodies of birds are limited for flight. Dinosaurs are still the peak of most optimal and successful animal builds.
>>3084935>Because the bodies of birds are limited for flightImagine being this wrong.
>>3084227Jersey Devil as a filament-covered squamate Dragon.
>>3084227Thanos but as an alien.
>>3084989Eh, Fuck it. I tried.>>3084994No.
>>3085182Ew, a 6-limbed dragon, along with that criminally flexible tail, and wings seem quite tiny as well.
>>3085182>Hexapodal Dragon, and on a spec-zoo thread too.Heresy!
>>3085470>>3085472It's the Jersey devil. Blame the dude who asked for it.
What would endothermic lizards be like? I'd imagine their hair-like covering would be interesting since it would have to evolve from overlapping scales.
>>3085738They would have longer snouts to heat up air and would have to eat more often. Maybe they could have millions of tiny vertical scales that act as fur.
>>3085008Outdated. More recent studies showed that arthropodes are bundled with round worms as "molting animals" group, while annelids are closer to molluscs
whats your guys thoughts on this
>it's another episode of "let's put some extra appendages on the body of a vertebrate and call it an alien"I can understand if the project is about taking pre existing lifeforms from earth and letting them evolve in a similar planet, but from scratch these alien designs annoy me so much.
>>3088312I haven't read it
>>3089201What's that you're referring too?
>>3088312One of my favourite artboks. Lots of nifty little ideas. Not entirely based in realism but WETA has amazing art. I sincerely wish there were more books like this
>>3089535Just came back to complain in this tread.
>>3088312it's good but not very plausibe
>>3093253Oi. What is this?
what spec project should be made into a mockumentery?
>>3094166That Skull Island challenge that's currently going on may make for an interesting one.
>>3093262>dracos marachute>Pinnipterids display an amazing range of sizes, the smallest able to sit in the palm of hour hand, and the largest (Dracos marahute) having a wingspan of nearly fifteen meters. This enormous flyer preys on large land animals, swooping down on them, delivering a killing bite, and then carrying them off. It is immensely powerful, still able to fly while carrying an animal of its own weight.https://www.deviantart.com/biofauna25/art/Dracos-marahute-362908835
>>3084227I'm stilling missing my shark hand gorilla
>>3084426What about kangaroos? Their tails are strong enough to function as a third leg.
>>3094166Wayne Barlowe's expedition
>>3096933thats already been made https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraterrestrial_(TV_program)
>>3099375why the fuck does the bird have arms
>>3100150Those are its legs.
Has anybody ever written a scenario where bats were the only flying vertebrates? What if there were diurnal bats filling all the same niches that birds do?
Lindwurm comm from Sheather.~ Can't wait to get to commission him again.
>>3101506Motherfucker can't reach it's own backpack.
>>3101508That's a uniform with medals on the back
>>3101540Motherfucker can't reach it's own back
>>3101502Huh, those are some weird sharks.
how could an apex predator that is an apex on both land, air and water appear and act like?
>>3104866figure it out yourself
>>3101497Doesn't look like the devil at all
>>3105748What the fuck? How long took to the whitetails to evolve into that?
>>3101465you should commission him to do a wing walking bird or somthing like that
Should I lurk and post in these threads if I want inspiration for animal/monster designs? You guys seem cool
>>3109871These threads are pretty slow, check out the actual spec evo forums for ideas.
Found these pictures on some Russian guys Instagram. Never seen them beforeDoes anybody have a link to the full book? I know it's All Yesterdays
Finally my favorite, bowhead whale
>>3105818Neither does this
>>3110272Actually yes it does, it fits every description
Found another one of a dolphin, now if only i can find the actual book.
>>3110582That's a spermwhale you dingust. has physical copy of the book
I speculate my dick in your mothers ass. How's that for Biology?
>>3110609close enoughnow scan the book
>>3110642Heck noBuy it
>>3076881>tfw /tg/ used to have evolution games back when quests were still a thing there.They were great
>>3110582You can find a copy online. Just look for it.
>>3081422damn anon you just made my day brighter by helping this other anon, thanks for being a human being
>>3081294Carl Sagan brought up an idea on how alien life could exist on gas giants, like Jupiter. Basically eggs fly though the air like spores until they are fertilized and grow into some sort of city-sized jellyfish kite creatures that hover in the air until they eventually fall to their deaths.
>>3081294>>3114043Here is a visual aid.
Could octopuses eventually be landborne?
>>3102962Shame about the artist though
>>3114203What's wrong with him?
Is there a way to make an alien with the body plan of an erect biped without making it look too human? Been thinking of having the Ghost Riders of The Wild Hunt be dimension-hopping predatory aliens that are basically like the Yautja in the fact that they enjoy hunting all manner of creatures from other worlds, but on steroids and are much creepier.
>>3109991Yeah, sure, here you gohttps://www.amazon.ca/All-Yesterdays-Speculative-Dinosaurs-Prehistoric-ebook/dp/B00A2VS55O
>>3085470If it's 4 limbed it's a pathetic excuse for a dragon.Your not very good at the speculative part of SE if you think otherwise.
>>3119646How the hell could you rationalize a hexapodal dragon without making all other vertebrates hexapods too then?
>>3114214He has a bad case of butthurt
>>3120015Jointed ribs into limbs?
Guys, can you help me figure this one out?If humanity disapeared, which current species would be the most likely candidate for the Big Sapient Dick role on this planet?And how would they evolve to better accommodate for that role? Personally I'm rooting for crows and octopi
>>3122609crows are doing great as is and an octopus lives like a month and under water. your ideas are dumb as hell.
>>3122609>which current species would be the most likely candidate for the Big Sapient Dick role on this planet?none as it's not an efficient strategy and not really a niche that needs to be filled.dumb animals are generally more successful than smart ones.
>>3116427yes there, is, if your definition of a biped is just that it walks on two feet.
>>3122728Yeah, but an erect biped means its body posture is, well, erect, like a human, Godzilla, or retrosaur.
>>3123167My dick is half of that already
>>3122609I think naked and Damaraland mole-rats have potential. They're eusocial, but unlike ants, they have big mammalian brains and the ability to hold things in their front feet. Imagine if eusocial mole-rats evolved some level of bipedalism, or began to farm like some termites do.
People often do spec evos turning lizards into psuedo dragons, but wouldnt birds be a better candidate? Bird but longer neck and extended tail essentially. Many birds already have very scaly faces, legs, chests etc Why would birds need a long neck or tail though?
>>3123307>Why would birds need a long neck or tail though?In order to fly. Long nect allows to stabilize the head, and thus stabilize the image. Also some species (like herons) use it to catch stuff.Long tail is needed for better stability and additional lift, especially when wingspan is small.
>>3123328Is there any reason birds would lose their beak?
>>3123940adaptation for hunting larger prey
>>3076881what does /se/ think about carnivorous plants? I think they have potential, I could easily see them becoming more widespread Infact is sort of weird how there are only so few of them, considering their succes and how they frequently beat other plants in competitive environments the only drawback is usually their need for moist grounds I fucking love these things, I wish giant flesh eating plants were real.
how would something fly if it stood erect like a human
>>3123976Yea I suppose a stronger bite force would be necessary and breaks aren't idea for that, they're for manipulation The lack of beak manipulation might then bring back grasping fingers with the wing
>>3122609I watched this documentary about speculative evolution about 10 years ago on natgeo that said in the event all humans completely disappeared the most likely canidate would be octopi.Their reasoning being that all octopi need to become as succesful as humans is longer lifespans and more social bonding. (and a tiny of bit of better communication skills) Octopus already can solve problems better than even primates and have the highest intelligence potential. Squids were also good but those live even shorter and arent as adaptable. Part of the reasoning was also that without humans other land based animals and apes especially would struggle with rats and mice, and while those struggle for hundreds of thousands of years octopus would evolve much easier. I always wonder if that inspired Splatoon perhaps
>>3122609If all humans disappeared this instant then the most likely candidate would be some other primate if not another Hominidae.They are the fourth most common phylum of mammal and they have much greater average brain size then those above and those that have greater brain size are morphologically damned to never produce a usefully sapient species. (looking at you cetaceans)
>>3124040You're forgetting that they can only survive in places with poor nutrients or else they'd be out competed by larger plants. If a mass extinction were to occur, carnivorous plants wouldn't spread because there'd be more nutrients for other plants
>>3124945but they receive more nutrients than competition, corpses make for good fertilizer. I would think at least some of them would spread and become succesful species, even when other plants are competing for the same nutrientsand while you are right for like 90% of cases there are common species that do well in more regular soil or waterbeds
>>3122609Octopodes. Unmoggable in fine motor control, communicates in complex patterns via chromatophores, commonly observed playing and using tools. Invertebrate gang rise up.
>>3124952>but they receive more nutrients than competition, corpses make for good fertilizerObviously the actual nutrient haul from insects is low, otherwise carnivorous plants wouldn't be restricted to low-nutrient soils.I think a big problem with carnivorous plants is losing their catch to scavengers - a spider can build a web inside a pitcher and eat all the insects. Scavenging is an inevitable niche, even lions have to chase off hyenas, but plants are uniquely helpless.
>>3124965the pitcher plants currently is one of the must successful species and it eats frogs and mice too, one is enough to cause enormous growthat times the catch works as bait attracting more insects to feed on itScavengers are a huge problems in the animal world that much is true, however smaller scavengers only aid the plants by dying too in its traps but in the case of these plants becoming more succesful you could indeed easily see animals adapt to steal the catches from these plants and poisonous defense mechanisms wouldnt do much for a plant because unless it dies close to the plant its useless to itI cant speak for certain but there were always tales around here about how the best fruit trees grew from graveyardsImagine a trapdoor carnivorous plant. Grows into the soil and displaces it for a large bladder to digest species, then with a hard, wooden cover that will fold inwards incase large enough prey walks over it and then reseals itself to prevent any further scavenging taking place
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm1JFLpkofs&feature=youtu.betrey just uploaded a new spec video, what are your guys' thoughts?
how could sapient cats (or catgirls if you really want to call those that) look like?im thinking of some alt evo shit where they instead of humans evolving you get cats evolving sapient
>>3125052Sapient toxo that infects primate-like cats and controls them.
>>3125089As cool as this would be I don't think parasite manipulation is possible is mammals.See here for why https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/08/19/maybe-your-zoloft-stopped-working-because-a-liver-fluke-tried-to-turn-your-nth-great-grandmother-into-a-zombie/
What would pterosaurs look like if they never went extinct but still coexisted with the exact same bird species we have today?
Need help finding this exobiology project I forgot to bookmark. It's a blog, what I remember is that it is well-developed, has journals about expeditions to the planet, the planet's geography, biomes, and taxonomy/tree of life of its creatures. One memorable critter from it is the arrowsnake tree, something like the impaler tree from Wayne Barlowe's Expedition. One of the expedition members was killed by it.
Has green world been scanned and uploaded somewhere yet?
>>3126326Probably not. Spec evo isn't popular enough to have more than a handful of people who can speak both Japanese and English. We'll have to wait for some manga translation group to miraculously find out about it and translate it.
>>3081422Never heard of spec Evo before and you're offering some amazing information. Thanks anon
>>3126399No, it's not Snaiad. One other thing I remember is that the planet has a continent of floating seaweed.
Centaur comm i got from the great Sheather.~
>>3125989Ilion my friend. One of the best projects out there.https://sunriseonilion.wordpress.com/
>>3126849This is it! Thank you!
>>3125117>https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/08/19/maybe-your-zoloft-stopped-working-because-a-liver-fluke-tried-to-turn-your-nth-great-grandmother-into-a-zombie/Never saw that blog, but looks like a fascinating read. Thanks, anon.
>>3126832Looks like ass.
>>3076881Just like in the DAYS OF NOAH. THEY HAVE SINNED AGAINST PLANTS AND ANIMALS.GNO SPLICING TECHNOLOGY.GMO FOODSDESIGNER BABIES.
>>3109995>>3109993>>3109991Those are modern animals "reconstructed" poorly showing how wrong we can be about creatures of the past. First one is iguana with fur, second python with legs and third whale reconstructed purely based on the skeleton.
>>3126379Why does it need to be translated?I just asked if it was scanned and uploaded somewhere.
>>3126867The guy who writes it is a psychologist by trade so it's not often he writes about stuff thats relevant to spec eco fans but it does happen on occasion.Heres an insightful one about animal intelligence https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/03/25/neurons-and-intelligence-a-birdbrained-perspective/
>>3109991Russian site called "sivatherium" had transcripts and high quality pictures from every speczoo book they could put their hands on back in the day. I'm glad I downladed them before they were hit with cease and desist.
EVOLUTION DIDNT REAL
>>3124111Thing is, being aquatic would limit sapient octopuses tremendously. You can't build fire underwater, and without fire you can't cook or perform metallurgy. Octopuses would have to evolve to be at least somewhat terrestrial, which is incredibly unlikely.
>>3127022You can tell the difference in quality when Sheather draws for his own projects vesus when he draws for commissions.
>>3127358Without fire you can cook. You can leave food for a day in 60+ temperature hot spring, so-called sous vide.In addition, seafood requires relatively light preparation to be nourishing.While you probably can't smell iron underwater, you can use stone tools and use cold-smithed gold made from nuggets.
This picture is the peak of human evolution.
>>3127681No. This is.
>>3127508To be fair, he's got a little birdie to take care of, so that's most likely the reason for the quality of my centaur, cuz my dragon he did as well as other previous works were better, thankfully my centaur's not all that bad either and still looks pretty alright.
>>3128922Dude I'd fuck a monkey I don't give a fuck.
>>3128951Should be a banner for /an/
>>3101481>be me>top right >wonder why can't we have some meat
Do you guys know any good references for exapod vertebrates?
>>3129574You mean hexapod?
>born too early to experience nekogirls
>>3130727http://www.planetfuraha.orgCheck out the locomotion tab
how do i get interested into spec evo againeverything on the forum is boring and is the same formula copy and pasted over and over againI had a few good ideas but I just don't have the motivation to do anything with them
>>3131203Take some Ritalin
>>3084407who did this?
>>3131203>>3131820Adderall for me. Currently obsessing over how intelligence and self awareness evolves.
>>3131947https://www.deviantart.com/sheather888/art/The-Tyrant-Vultrat-583706726>A mother vultrat carefully keeps an eye out for danger as her two four-month-old pups romp in the meadow, weaving in and out of her immense shadow. With a mother as strong and attentive as theirs, they know they're safe to run and play without any worry about predators causing them any harm - there are very few stronger than an adult of their own species, and none so dumb as to try and get past their gargantuan guardian.
I need me some xeno/spec penguinsas long as they're not whale wannabes
>>3132015>Predatory penguin that almost runs like a human.>neck is still long, but much more muscular and pecks its prey like a woodpecker. >mostly ambushes, but sometimes works with others to maneuver herd prey. >Wings are much smaller with one talon on each, though still used only to hold itself to the prey. Almost like a t-rex might have done. >Reaches heights of about 3.5 feet at the shoulder and has long stripes going down it's body to blend in the Antarctic jungles
>xenopus gets introduced on terraformed world>eventually spreads into saltwater>one species becomes neotenic, with it retaining its filter feeding methods from their larval stage>whiskers become sticky and can catch plankton>eventually the lower jaw disappears and is replaced by multiple whiskers which interweave and look like a net>mass extinction happens>the neotenic whisker frog survives and radiates into several species>one species gets extremely large and starts feeding on its cousins>needs a jaw but lost it many generations ago>arms grow sharp spines like spear mantis shrimp>impales small animals, puts it in its mouth, the animal gets moved into its throat by thousands of tiny whiskers and gets digested
>>3133120I did not know there were frogs called xenopus
Could non-avian dinosaurs still exist in isolation somewhere on Earth today?
>>3135829shame, wonder how they would of evolved if they did
What could be the best candidate(s) for a speculative chupacabra? And NONE of that shit on the mangey canine version please.
>>3135014Unlikely. If they did, it'd probably be some small lizard thing deep in the Congo basin. Like a tuatara you wouldn't think them that odd, even though their nearest ancestors died off millions of years ago.
>>3136455new world monkey that convergently evolved with baboons
>>3136474It'd be interesting to see though, what would a modern day hadrosaur or ceratopsian look like?
>>3136481But what of those back spines and reptilian look to them, could a monkey evolve those features?
>>3135014As interesting as that would be, I would imagine the groups best suited to survive for extended famine mostly lived in the Northwest Americas, as they lived in cold environments and had smaller opportunistic animals like Troodon. Unfortunately it was also directly in the "get fucked" path of the meteor due to its angle of impact.Although I'm not sure of any temperate desert-dwelling dinosaurs in Mongolia, they might have just been too big.
>>3136816>hadrosaurI'm picturing an ostriche-like creature, with arms instead of wings and a broad tail. Runs at about 60kmh across the Great Plains. Native Americans used them as mounts and beasts of burden.>ceratopsianA small boar like creature. Lives in herds but doesn't have the same herd-defense as elephants or cattle. Some live in the undergrowth eating grasses. Some climb trees and use their beak to crack nuts. A single species still remains large, about the size of a rhino. It charges trees to knock them down and get at the leaves when food is more scarce or more commonly to knock the fruit down. Sadly, this last species is nearing extinction as their natural habitat shrinks and poachers seek their horns.
>>3138261>back spinesTufts of hair in a pattern used for camoflague and mating rituals>reptilian lookMaybe they're just hairless in some areas to cope with dry habitats
>>3138281>>3138293I'm working on a worldbuilding thing with an island that split off during the late cretaceous, Does a raptor evolving to take the place of the T.rex on the island after it goes extinct make reasonable sense?
>>3138876Yeah. But there's also island pygmy-ism irl. So I'm not sure if it would reach the same sizes. But there are plenty of occurrences where a smaller predator became an apex predator with the loss of the previous one.
>>3138881Could it get to a similar size, but a bit smaller and be a more lean built predator?
>>3114044Why do specbio projects NEVER address how large, aerial complex lifeforms could never survive in the atmosphere of a gas giant, even a temperate one? Jupiter has a hurricane fucking twice the size of earth with lighting strokes containing more energy than 100 hydrogen bombs. Saturn has straight line winds clocked at no less than 1000 miles an hour.Anything in the air would either be ripped to shreds or incinerated. Star Wars' cloud city would suffer a similar fate.
>>3139907What about Neptune, or Uranus, which are both smaller and calmer.
>>3140789Neptune has the fastest measured winds in the solar system. I don't know about your butthole though.