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old : >>2870727
discord : https://discord.gg/gUCfbeh


discuss speculative evolution shit here
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bumping for evo
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>>2886326
HOLD up niggers. When did it get changes to 4channel? I’m literally never coming back to 4chan again if it stays this way
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>>2886326
The water people are my favorite
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Why is there nothing about how invasive species will evolve in the future?
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>>2886326
Bump
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>>2886416
it's been this way for awhile.
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>>2886449
water people were the shitty mary sues of the story, the cave dwellers were the real chads

i was also sort of disappointed that there were no flying human derived species, or that the book didn't go into how other life evolved.
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cont from last thread : whats the next animal to evolve powered flight?
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cont from last thread also : what is your guy's idea for an animal that has specifically evolved for hunting humans in urban area's
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>>2887193
Star nosed mole
>>2887313
Judas roaches
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>>2887193
whatever currently has evolved gliding eg "flying" frogs/geckos/squirrels etc

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_and_gliding_animals#Vertebrates

Flight, like any large adaptation will almost always occur gradually
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Don't let this thread die.
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>>2887313
toilet snake
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>>2887794
you mean like a snake that hides in toilets and then kills people by biting their cocks, if so that is kinda plausible
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>>2887313
come on, lads
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>>2886326
>those humans engineered to only be able to live in space for the sole purpose of fixing that spaceship one time then are left behind
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>>2888074
those generalist humans that evolved hereditary memory but refuse to use it in any way out of fear of repeating history
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whats a cliche in most spec evo projects that you hate the most?
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>>2888031
yeah or it shoots up your anus and slithers in your intestines
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>>2888798
>[random animal] evolves [random trait]
>duuuddee like what if penguins were whales maann
>alien creature is just a jumble fuck of random animals mixed together
>alien atmosphere is exactly like earth's
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>>2888798
>somehow an animal evolves god-tier camouflage
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>>2888812
>duuuddee like what if penguins were whales maann
this is plausible, though, convergent evolution and what not
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>>2889262
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>>2888798
>humans weren't able to adapt and go extinct because reasons
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>>2888798

Godzilla sized megafauna. Wayne Barolowe's project had giant bipedal grazers that stood no less than twice the height of the Statue of Liberty. Batshit insane even on a low gravity planet.
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>>2888798
humans evolving faster than their civilizations
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>>2889715
Just prove it mathematically.
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>>2889715
they also had a constant, near unlimited source of food, though. It makes sense in such conditions that a species could get fucknormous.

Look at trees, they get gigantic because their sources of food, sunlight and atmospheric carbon, are pretty much limitless for them
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>>2889777
The limit for height of trees is only the ability of water sucking. Too tall tree will not provide its foliage with water.
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>i will never see how animals will look like in millions of years
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>>2889779
The tallest trees like redwoods use air roots to pull moisture out of the air and collect dew and rain
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>>2889969
Wouldn't a tree evolving something similar to buckets to catch and store rain help? Would be a cool ecosystem if the buckets were large enough.
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>>2890010
That would be really cool. Imagine gigantic trees with pond sized buckets that had flying fish that could actually fly short distances moving between them
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what is your idea about the future evolution of eusocial insects anon?
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>>2890010
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>>2888798
whats a cliche in most spec evo projects that you love the most?
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>>2888798
Live-bearing birds, parasitic humans
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bump
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What is the best publishing house to try to publish a speculative biology book (text + coloured pictures)?
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>>2890228
Bees get BTFO, ants and termites get better at agriculture but are otherwise mostly the same.
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>>2891470
Ur mom
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>>2890228
ant hives come together to form a giant ant-mech. specialized ant-units joined together to make a mobile ant hill and optimus prime esque apex predator with the ability to shapeshift
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what was that one spec evo thing where aliens find humans and fuck them all up and then shows what all the humans evolve into? i remember there was like a snake human and a flying human and weird shit like that
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>>2891733
All Tomorows.

I feel like the author has a weird fetish he couldn't help but include in the book. He wrote of the modified humans having giant orgies.
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>>2888812
>duuuddee like what if penguins were whales maann
didn't real whales come from rat-dog-lizards though? not that weird desu
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>>2888798
>cryptids or mythological animals not presented in a realistic manner in a realistic world.
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>>2890228
Either ants or termites that start out normally, but soon a select few grow to be specialized to migrate through seasonally greening deserts. The males can't fly, so instead of dispersing them a few females grow large enough to carry as many of her sisters as possible, and the queen. A few will either grow larger mandibles or acid spitters to protect the mobile colony from any would be predators, while clamping their velcro legs around the large ant. Maybe a few could grow their mandibles into clamps to hold up shade so they can travel in the day. Though any of the ants that grow these modified mouthparts will need the smaller regular ants to feed them.
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>>2890228
man-eating ants
let me get this straight here,

driver ants evolving a sub species of driver ants have evolved to cuck humans by stronger mandibles and evolving different castes to hunt humans in different environments (eg homes and outside), also having evolved better eye's because obvious. they also are nocturnal and have evolved to be immune to pesticides
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>>2891884
also bigger manibles and have colonies of 100s of queens and 1 inch workers and 5 inch majors
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>>2891613
Good joke, bro. Laughing under the table.
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Bumppp!
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Did anyone else read this book? What are your thoughts?
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eusocial birds my guy
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>>2892955
hi cat.
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>>2886416
Why are you being a tourist?
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>>2892955
Nice example of spec biology, but many creatures seem to be impossible because of mistakes in their design.
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>>2890228
ant-plant symbiosis like the Devil’s Gardens' Myrmelachista schumanniand Duroia hirsuta or Crematogaster and Macaranga in the old world
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>>2892955
This was actually a whole franchise with documentaries and even an animated series. I remember watching the episode about the ants on the picture.
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>>2892955
Someone uploaded the documentary to youtube and I watched it last night

I took issue with how many times they said "scientists predict". Could make it into a drinking game.
Some of the things made no goddamn sense. Why the hell would the northern gannet bloat into a flightless bird walrus in a space of 5 million years?
And they never explained how the hell fish to go straight from being a strictly aquatic species to powered flight, never returning to the water in at least one species.

And how fucking potent is swampus venom that it can bring down a 20 ton animal?

I'm not saying all these things are totally impossible, they just seem really unlikely and they never explain how or why these adaptations happen, just that "scientists predict that it will happen", but doesn't name them.
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>>2893710
I always wondered why they choose a gannet instead of a penguin.

Looking at the state of most tv now I can guess what went wrong:
>scientists deliver reasonable animal prediction
>"Not spectacular enough or tv, make it bigger, weirder and more dangerous"
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>>2892955
It's shit. The worst speculative evolution projects are the ones where "lol random animal becomes random mutation thats literally unplausible but it looks cool so it must work"

A bird will never become fully aquatic unless it figures out a way to incubate an egg underwater or give live birth. And a squid will never become land animals because right now they've adapted to living in water for thousands of millennia.

Fucking retards, its so annoying. Why not choose strong animals that would adapt to nearly everything the world throws at them like mice or cockroaches. Instead of the weirdest animal you could think of.
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>>2893897
honestly. I liked After man much better, everything felt more plausible.

The island with all the weird flightless bat species was kinda silly, though.
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>>2893901
Yeah I liked After Man too. I liked how Dixon showed that animals would also branch off into entirely new genera such as the reedstilits and gholes, it helps brainlets that think a species can't evolve into another understand that evolution is not linear
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>>2893897
>A bird will never become fully aquatic unless it figures out a way to incubate an egg underwater
Now that's not a far stretch.

Way more interesting is how birds could become entirely independent of land if they manage to incubate their egg in flight.
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>>2890228
There's a legitimate trend among ant species towards forming super-colonies. Normally ants differentiate their colonies via pheromones, which are partially based on genetics. This drives them to compete against each other, even if they're of the same species. However, human transport networks have allowed ants to travel much faster than they would otherwise and inadvertently this has allowed groups of closely related colonies to spring up across vast areas. This decreases the genetic variation and consequently suppresses their instinct to compete with one another. This has resulted in super-colonies forming from many different non-competing sub-colonies. In a nut shell, ants are entering a stage of globalization that will probably have profound effects on their long-term social development.
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bump
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>>2894597
SCREEEE!
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if humans became this intelligent in 200,000 years "because of fire", how fast will dogs and cats become because of humans?
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>>2893975
The person behind Serina came up with a solution. Basically the bird only has one develop one egg at a time. Said egg sits inside the oviduct that's lined with muscles that allow the egg to be turned, circulate air through the cloaca, and not be crushed from all the motions of the mother, but at the same time use those motions to aid in the circulation of fresh air. Though it mainly happened in a species of ground dwelling Ardgeese.
https://sites.google.com/site/worldofserina/home/the-tempuscene-11---50-million-years/25-million-years-pe-rise-of-the-nearly-live-bearing-bird
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>>2894608
Intelligence existed for much longer, it's just that certain memes (in the original sense of the word) took a while to stick to the minds of individual in a group, and then be passed on through culture.
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>>2894608
Domesticated animals are not subject to normal evolutionary pressures. They won't become more intelligent unless we intentionally select for that.
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>>2894614

I don't know about that, humans are still evolving even though we dominated everything thousands of years ago, why wouldnt pets stop using certain unneeded functions and put energy elsewhere? Especially when people use dogs fior tasks. Cats already changed their meow to mimic a baby crying so we listen to them.
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>>2894638
Humans are not "evolving." Genetic drift is a natural thing that happens in populations with no pressure to change due to random chance.
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>>2894644

I honestly cant understand how people believe evolution is random when things like snakes evolve tails that look like spiders to trick birds to coming to it. The brain of every animal is more intelligent than we realize imo.

Imagine thinking we 100% understand evolution.
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>>2894661
Are you saying that you think snakes just willed their tails into having mimicry?
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>>2894661
Evolution isn't random, evolution is whatever works. One day a snake was born with a mutated tail that looked a bit bug like, this worked out in its favor because dumbass birds were drawn to it becoming easy meals for the snake, consequently the snake lived to pass on this deformed tail to its offspring, rinse and repeat until you get a snake with an uncannily spider-like tail that's really good at duping birds.
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>>2893897
Cephalopods have one great restriction in their life - the salinity of water. They are not adapted even to brackish or fresh water. And our "speculators" want them to thrive on land under the rain of fresh water...
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>>2894688
It's not unthinkable for cephalopods to adapt to freshwater environments, other molluscs pull it off.
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>>2894686
>muh comprehensible logic behind history argument
It's the 19th century Hegelian "weltgeist" fad that both Darwin and Marx fell for.

Mutation IS random.
And "whatever works" and survival depends on so many factors in so many individual situations that it might as well be random too.
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>>2893901
In New Zealand there is a species of bat, the lesser short-tailed bat, which was in the transition stage of evolving flightlessness. Sadly the bat is nearly extinct because they got BTFO by introduced predators.
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>>2894852
I'm not saying flightless bat species are outta the question, I just question the anatomy of a lot of them.
>>2894597
like this horror. Even if the front limbs did evolve into legs while the back became grasping claws, wouldn't it make more anatomical sense for the back limbs to go under the body, not awkwardly draped over the shoulder?
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>>2894836
Mutation is random, evolution is not
Traits don't become prevalent at random, they become prevalent because they're well suited for the environment they emerged in, saying it "might as well be random" doesn't make any sense when it's pretty clear what works and what doesn't
it's why convergent evolution is a thing, similar traits evolve in different species because they're what works in their environment
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imagine if cetaceans or pinnipeds re-adapted to terrestrial life
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>>2895260
What wishy-washy shits, like make up your mind, fuck.

Someone on /x/ came up with this concept of a realistic kappa as a cetacean, either a freshwater dolphin descendant adapting to become more amphibian-like, or an early offshoot from when cetaceans still had limbs.

it's pretty creepy. Imagine you're out for a swim and this fucking thing grabs onto you.
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>>2895260
quick shop, scary stuff
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what do you guys think the chances of bats evolving beaks is, like every previous flying chordate has?
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>>2895279
what advantages would be granted to bats by evolving beaks? Teeth seem superior for the various diets that bats have. Vampire makes more sense with teeth, fruit eating makes more sense with teeth, insect eating makes more sense with teeth?
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>>2895296
whatever prompted birds and pterosaurs to evolve beaks
Birds still eat bugs, fruit, and blood just fine with beaks
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>>2894863
I agree with you that the back limbs probably would more likely to evolve under the body, however it would be more convenient for the back legs to evolve on the sides of the body, so maybe evolutionary pressures would over time select the bats with back legs more to the side for successful sexual reproduction. The front limbs of a bat are much stronger, so it would make more sense for the front limbs to evolve into walking limbs, while the back limbs are for manipulating objects and catching food. A possible evolutionary route is a sapient flightless bat species that evolves tool use.
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>>2895321
the only way birds ended up winning was due to a period of food scarcity where beaks and their small size had the edge. Things like pecking into small areas or breaking stuff to get to bugs/seeds.
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>>2895279
Nah, just slightly longer snouts, or uglier faces for crazy precice sonar. Longer whiskers could be another possibility, but not beaks.
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Whats the dumbest thing you've seen in spec evo before?
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>>2896083
Everything in man after man was pretty dumb
the premise itself was interesting, but it didn't make sense for all these human derived species to retain so much human physiology over millions of years, the only reason they stayed so recognizably human was to play up the uncanny valley angle
The human face is a terrible product of evolution, the only reason it still exists as it does is because we removed ourselves from natural selection. The human mouth is too small for its teeth, and we're highly prone to dental deformation, the human jaw is small and relatively weak for an animal our size
It works for us because we started hunting and butchering our food with tools, and cooking it to make it easier to chew and digest
For these crratures to retain such recognizably human faces despite the fact they do not use fire or tools, and are more or less just animals doesn't make any sense.

And this ugly sonofabitch, why does it keep so much blubber in a tropical climate? And These small parasitic humanoids would make terrible parasites, theres nothing stopping him from just grabbing them and pulling them off, but he doesn't for reasons never explained.
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>>2890233
I don't know the context but I'm betting that's not a cool but instead, actually a horribly dangerous place.
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My favourite might be wodpeckers starting to hunt big prey as a swarm.
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>>2890010
The Long Earth touched on a kind of tree that carried water to its leaves in floating sacs up the hollow trunk. The wood was also filled with air pockets, so it was strong and light. The trees could grow to kilometers in height, but because of all the gas in their systems they'd explode if caught on fire.

In fact, The Long Earth is pretty good if you're into speculative evolution. That's basically the whole concept of the world laid out, parallel worlds leading to parallel evolutions.
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>>2894597

the thumbnail looks like it's (((rubbing it's hands)))
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>>2888798
Posthumans becoming Radically different than their regular human counterparts in an illogically short amount of time.
>>2890715
Extrasolar colonisation and Terraforming by Humans. think planets and projects like Nea.
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>>2897091
explain to us how it "belongs in /x/", those threads are for speculating the evolution of mythical creatures, cryptids and other paranormal entities. speculative evolution isn't about the fucking paranormal at all
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>>2896189
The New Dinosaur was pretty dumb to. It was just full of dinos turning into modern animals.
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>>2897619
its not that outlandish but that is pretty boring, yeah. Dixon really likes to dabble with the idea of animals evolving to fill the nice of other modern animals.

I love the idea of penguin pterosaurs though
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>>2897695
Penguins are already a dinosaur that fits the penguin niche.
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>>2886326
How would society be if humans were marsupials?
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>>2897698
Pterosaurs aren't dinosaurs you silly silly man
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>>2897738
Marsipual's nipples are inside their pouches so women wouldn't have to worry about nip slips anymore
There would be a new sect of fetishists who wanna fuck women in their pouches. Would probably be considered normal, though, like breast fetishism
there would be those sensationalist 'news' pieces about moms who keep their kids in their pouches way too long, like those moms who still breastfeed their kid at 8
Also men would have two dicks and women would have two vaginas, making bottom surgery for trannies more complicated
Trannies would also either have pouches cut into them or sewn up
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>>2898102
>>2897738
Assuming the evolutionary history of humans is pretty much the same, except primates emerged from the marsupial clade instead of the eutheria clade, this would mean other primates would be marsupials too of course
It also likely means humans would have evolved in australia first rather than africa, before migrating to the rest of the world, but it also seems likely that primates might be restricted to the australian continent as a result
the evolutionary niches of primates in the rest of the world would be filled by completely different animals
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>>2897738
global Australia.
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>>2887313
yer mum
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>>2888798
species develops psychic powers and mind control
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>>2898377
psychic powers isn.t that far out there depending on how they portray it.

At the end of the day all you gotta do to make telepathy is find a way to make wifi out of meat

A brain is already a computer made out of meat, afterall.
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>>2898543
Well, there are animals that are electrosensitive and others that can emit electricity.
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this is why we aren't on /an/cord
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>>2898772
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>>2898755
exactly, all the pieces are laid out, so it's not a huge stretch of the imagination.

The biggest hurdle would be that projecting energy (electricity, radio waves, whatever) that other members of your species can pick up on would, well, take a lot of energy. So whatever species that evolves to a point where it could use such a mechanism in normal communication would need a very reliable high energy food supply.
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>>2896202
Massive cave system with it's own exotic and dangerous ecosystem.
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>>2890228
Not future evolution of terrestrial insects, but I had the idea the other day about how despite insectoid aliens being common in sci fi they are usually huge either human sized or bigger but I can't remember any sapient bug sized aliens.
Then I started imagining what a sapient ant hill might be like, for example due to their small size how might they view the world differently, since they are so small they would likely use resources at a much slower rate and explore their world slower as well, they might make it to space before they even fully explore their planet, wars may very infrequent considering their relative abundance of space and resources.
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>>2898772
don't call it that its just some faggot who started a faggot discord.
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>>2897738
We wouldn't be sapient since marsupials are all dumb as hell.
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>>2899086
that's the name of the server
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Thread bump
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what species other then monkeys do you guys think will become a sapient in the future
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>>2900441
Really any species could provided there no competition and enough ecological niches that are open. In that one bird speculative project (forgot the name), pond snails lost their shells and became intelligent over the course of 250 million years, taking the niche of stingrays (which are already pretty intelligent for a fish)
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>>2888404
>hereditary memory

is this actually a thing?
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>>2900706
in the book it is , but in real life i doubt it will ever evolve naturally and even artificially will take forever to actucally work.

"hereditary memory" takes far too many complex adaptations and doesn't offer much advantage for each milestone (think about how eyes evolved, going from being able to tell light from dark, direction of light and forming images each offered some use)

Hereditary memory would require the brain somehow being able to encode memories into the dna of germ line cells (at the complete opposite end of the body) which in and of itself requires some "dna language" that can be translated too and fro with human memories, which.
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>>2900907
>hereditary memory

>be born knowing what your ancestors knew- live is pointless, there is no justice in the universe, and nothing has meaning outside your stupid little skull
>kill yourself at age 3 when you finally develop the dexterity to tie a noose

yeah, you don't want to inherit the knowledge of your elders. There's a reason we don't go around telling people that shit.
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>>2901103
Ok ok
>racism blah blah blah
But why are they smiling though? That's fucking sadistic-ass shit right there.
>>
how could dwarves/elves scientifically accurately exist?
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>>2901387
Raccoons that live in packs and wear hats to signify their rank in the pack
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>>2886326
Any chance of stingrays becoming semi-aquatic?
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>>2901387
>dwarves
already occur naturally
>elves
breed for ear shape. same with dogs. you've got a sample size of about 7 billion, i'm pretty sure theres some fuck or two out there whos a bit slender with pointed ears.
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>>2898125
Would be cool to see little monkeys instead of possums in my backyard.
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>>2897738
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>>2896202
You'd be correct.
The entire place is riddled with hostile fauna that developed a "sixth sense" so to speak.
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>>2901433
Maybe, there's videos of stingrays jumping on land to steal fish from fishermen. I could see something like them having rough patches on the sides of their fins that would help them hold onto rough surfaces (kinda like a frog uses rough patches to hold onto a female)
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>>2901502
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>>2898828
So you are just saying that they speak in EM waves that are out of visible spectrum.
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>>2899081
Considering how insects behave if they manage to overcome food scarcity through technology like us they will quickly take over the world.
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>>2901387
Elves could evolve if a tribe that finds long pointed ears attractive for some reason gets stranded in an isolated area and evolved pointy ears through sexual selection.
(maybe a continent that became inaccessible due to the end of the ice age)
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>>2900706
sort of, we dont know a lot about it

not long ago, a study was done on mice where they were trained to be afraid of a certain scent they wouldn't normally encounter, afterwards their children, who had never encountered the scent and were born after the initial experiment, reacted fearfully to it.
exactly how far this goes isn't known
https://www.nature.com/news/fearful-memories-haunt-mouse-descendants-1.14272
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>>2888811
STOP!!! STOP STOP STOP STOP STOOOOOOOOOOOP!!!!
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>>2901842
>>2901445
Elves are also immortal, or at least VERY long lived, while being condition for most of the time.
This is arguably more important than the long ears.
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>>2902246
>while being in top condition
I meant.
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>>2887193

Something that moves its forelimbs in a flapping stroke.
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>>2894852
>>2894863

Flightless bats ARE out of the question. Mystacines had 17 million years to become flightless, yet literally all New Zealand birds beat them to the punched in a much shorter span of time.
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>>2902246
it can be just a myth or exaggeration of tales.
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what is your favorite subgenres of spec evo?
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>>2903082
what are*
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I like cryptids.
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>>2903082
Terraforming are always the funnest
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>>2904215
Yeah, it is pretty neat to see how Earth life adapts to various differences in gravity, the planet's or moon's orbit, composition on the minerals, and sometimes any alien species that may be placed alongside the Terran life.
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I’ve been wanting to start a speculative biology project about life on another planet for ages now. I’m a decent artist and have a background in science. Problem is, I have no idea where to start, and when I do design something it’s never quite good enough. Coming up with alien bauplans that still look organic and plausible is hard. Where the hell do I start? Any tips?
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>>2904894
I think the first step would be designing a planet, gravity, temperature, atmosphere, etc. From there, your primary producers, and then work your way up the food chain.

Problem is I have trouble coming up with an interesting planet to start with. I don’t want it to be a barren desert planet like so many spec projects. I need some interesting gimmick or twist that will inform the rest of my biosphere and lead to unique and truly alien adaptations in my organisms.

I did have one idea of an environment of stumpy flat topped plant-like organisms which grow close to each other and create a tile like surface. Animals would live on top and below in the shadowy crevices beneath. Maybe this would be on a high gravity planet?

Anyone want to make a planet?
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>>2904894
Just think about it while driving or taking a shower. Think of some cool things about animals and combine that into an alien species. Kinda like how the sacback from Expedition was a mix of how hornbills trap their mates, how a camel stores food in a hump, and how cuttlefish touch eachother with their tentacles. But first thing you have to do is set up the planet and the environment. You have to be unique, will the animals be eyeless? Will the planet be low or high gravity? What is the land to water ratio on the planet?
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>>2904901
Low grav has been done to death. I was thinking a “super earth”, maybe 1.5 earth gravity, denser atmosphere, and landmass like Pangea. Flying is energetically cheaper here, plants are short and thick, and most terrestrial animals are low to the ground or have more than four legs. What sort of adaption opportunities would a high gravity world open up?
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>>2904908
Yeah i agree about low gravity, too many people do it. If you want inspiration for high gravity animals look at things that dwell on the bottom of the earth's waters. Things like catfish, loaches, stingrays, isopods, frogfish, and pom pom anemones
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>>2904894
First of, start "small" create a world that has been colonized and terraformed by humans with life native to earth before taking a dive into the deep end and creating a world completely alien. Start of "small" rome was not build in one day.
>>2904894
>I think the first step would be designing a planet, gravity, temperature, atmosphere, etc. From there, your primary producers, and then work your way up the food chain.
this.
For starters, how does a 10.032km diameter and roughly 97% earths mass Sound? with a slightly larger core than earth aswell as higher amounts of metals like Copper, Iron, Zinc, Tin and Magnesium? wich gives rocks you find aswell as rocky areas are more "metal soundling clinnging noice" when you bash them into something and a somewhat reddish colour due to oxydation.
sound good? build from there.think of what creatures and animals you would use as first colonizers and build from there and make your world something truelly unique.
use everything from natural selection to genetically modification and build up the planet's new ecosystem/ecosystems layer upon layer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3iwvG2ZKuw
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>>2904894
think about different environments that could exist, and what adaptations a species might have to live there
look at living species in similar environments for ideas, nothing wrong with convergent evolution
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>>2893710
Got a link?
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>>2904992
two different versions up, second one looks more informative, less bells and whistles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rbi8Jgx1CNE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHY135TdgUs
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>>2905016
>Deer, Goats and oxen somehow dissapeared in europe in the next 5 million years.
>wolves and other canids dissapear in the next 5 million years
>bovids and deer somehow dissapear everywhere
>camelids wont live on in Australia and south america when dying out on the northern hemisphere
>big cats and other megafauna wont move up north and into Little Asia when africa and europe merge and when civilisations no longer keep them back
>Australia wont be covered in introduced pines and cycads, ferns wollemia and araucaria forrests in 5 million years
>Opposums wont speciate in north-america
>whales, sealions and seals die out in the next 5 million years
>mammals die out in 100 millions years
what a fucking joke, what a fucking shitshow.
>>
Any of you guys read Ringworld? It's perfect for this thread and has sequels that get even further into divergent human evolution. Also neat xenobiology insights for alien races

>>2886326
>>2886923
>>2896189
Had a copy of this in my science classroom as a kid.. shit changed my perspective back then but obviously very whimsical and simplified. Still enjoy the illustrations a lot
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>>2892955
That shit is impossible to find
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>>2895270
>Neo-Spacian Aqua Dolphin
>>
what are some good tips for a beginning spec artist?
>>
could termites evolve to digest metal in the near future? i mean forests are destroyed daily getting replaced by cities so termites might have to evolve something to survive in cities
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>>2905715
Expanding on top of allready existing projects.
Also see >>2904946
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>>2899081
>wars may very infrequent considering their relative abundance of space and resources
The sapient insectoids would just increase in population until they go to war over diminishing resources. The insectoids would number in the trillions instead of billions like humans, but would consume roughly the same amount of resouces and fight over them just as visciously.
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I want to draw speculative evolution stuff, but i don't know where to start. Everything in the /ic/ sticky is confusing
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>>2906012
smoke some weed with your friends. Sit on a dirty couch and start asking each other questions like "dude, what if cats had TRUNKS?!"
Or "dude, what if mushrooms could DO GYMNASTICS?!!"

then take the weirdest shit and write it down to draw later.
>>
>>2906012
>>2906020
of course coming up with drug-fueled hallucinations about the biological realm is only the first step.

after you draw it you then have to invent some clever environment where plastic bags would evolve venomous tentacles or where a detachable penis that runs around stuffing itself into people's holes would necessary to survive.

That's the part where the 'speculative evolution' gets its real intellectual punch. If you can think of a plausible scenario where your mindless and idiotic fantasies might come true then you've succeeded! Invent a whole world of detachable penises or venomous garbage! Tell us how and why you think it would exist! Let us marvel at your whimsical genius and maybe even buy your coffee table book!
>>
>>2906037
>>2906020
Shut up faggots, I'm talking about the art side. I already have plans on what to draw, i just suck ass at drawing and want to get better.
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>>2906056
Does it matter how badly you draw a fictional creature?

are people going to complain that your completely imaginary thing doesn't look real enough?
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>>2906100
depends on whether or not you're going for scientific feasibility

if you wanna do speculative evolution shit, you gotta stay somewhat grounded
If you're doing something like pokemon or digimon go nuts
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>>2905736
metal has almost no nutrition besides the obvious iron, anything that eats it out of necessity would have a pretty alien metabolism and dietary needs

Maybe if they evolve to need more iron for whatever reason, maybe to reinforce their exoskeleton and jaws to defend from the future anteater people
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>>2906181
>depends on whether or not you're going for scientific feasibility
Scientific feasibility isn't really a thing.

Biologists have long debated whether things are as they must be or if they could have gone differently.

the general consensus among the greatest biologists from Cope to Dollo to Haldane to Gould to Dawkins is that things HAD to evolve as they did because they did it over and over.

Science doesn't otherwise comment on the feasibility of speculative fiction. We have no data from which to test your conjectures.

Especially in the case of speculative evolution where generally the organism is first imagined out of the whole cloth and then explained in reverse with an equally imaginary biome. Or to put it much more succinctly- Alien life is currently no more real than bigfoot. Same is true of future life. And the simple fact the you IMAGINE it to be a certain way statistically almost guarantees it isn't.
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>>2906187
>Scientific feasibility isn't really a thing.
Fine, create a literal clown that walks along the sea floor and absorbs oxygen from the water through its hair

It evolved from a sea slug
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>>2906195
As long as it's not a giant spider, I'm good.
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>>2906195
>Fine, create a literal clown that walks along the sea floor and absorbs oxygen from the water through its hair
Thanks, this is my fursona now.
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>>2906187
>pseudo-intellectual garbage
>reddit spacing

pottery
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>>2906020
It's not a speculative evolution, but just a cerebral ipsation (brain masturbation).
Speculative evolution works a different way.
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>>2906037
>>2906020
>>2905211
>xenobiology
Welcome to Kosemen's magical realm. Here may be rape turtles.

https://canopy.uc.edu/bbcswebdav/users/gibsonic/Snaiad/snduterus.html


>in b4 "that spike gets in the way"
The motherfucker actually reproduces and gives birth to her babyfuckers via her "first head", following the template all the idiotic critters on the planet share.
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What if primates and therefore humans emerged from theriodonts?
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>>2907063
we'd probably be extinct
if not, humans probably would have emerged a lot longer ago and assuming we didn't blow ourselves up we'd probably have mars colonies by now, at minimum
We also probably wouldn't have nipples and lay eggs. Can't say for sure how this would shape our society, but human babies might be slightly more developed when they emerge from their shells, so childcare would be pretty different
I'd also like to think that humans might develop hangups about eating eggs of other species. Imagine eating what looks like a tiny newborn to you.
Obviously there would still be cultures that do it, like those indians who eat goat fetuses, might be seen as gross by other people.
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>>2897695
Man, there's no in-between with Dixon
it's either "what if this group of animal evolved to look more like another through convergent evolution?" or shit like this
>>2907036
>>2907033
What the fuck is this even?
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>>2907279
Dixon's idea of future man. They develop massive brains. They then build biotech to enhance their psychic powers, and protect themselves from their environment.
>>
How the fuck would we even classify things from another planet that are 100% unrelated to life as we know it
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>>2907286
we would have to start over and make a separate taxonomic tree for that planet
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>>2886923
Last and First Men: A Story of the Near and Far Future

olaf stapleton

Flying evol there
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>>2900443
underwater creatrues can becasut he ycant build stuff. Water makes it all fall apart and not work, also no fire
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>>2907344
All Tomorrows got around this with the tool breeders
Essentially, they created all the buildings and tools they needed by selectively breeding other organisms, eventually getting to the point where they could genetically engineer them
Medical sea squirts, bio luminescent lights, even mollusc rifles that shoot their own teeth and living television screens made out of cephalopod skin

Dunno about the feasibility of it, but it's a cool idea
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>>2886326
Hell why not, have some Codex Seraphinianus.
Scientists predict this is the future. Prove it ain't.
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>>2886326
I've always thought these were very uncanny valley-esque.
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>>2907364
thats what the author of the book that thing is in meant
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>>2904897
I've always wanted to experiment with creatures on a gas giant. Would they "swim" through the gas if light enough, while the smaller species hide in the center? Idk just speculating
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>>2907363
You say it, you must prove it. Just translate some parts of this book to prove it. Or else you are peace-door-ball (Russian-speaking readers understand me).
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>>2900706
Yes. Dogs are born with medical knowledge that probably surpasses the person reading this post. They know exactly what herbs to eat to combat many common illnesses they face, and know how to clean wounds.
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>>2888812
>alien atmosphere is exactly like earth's
I don't mind this because it allows people to explore what alternate evolution, and is also easier to understand in context.
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>>2907764
I'm more fascinated by woulds that have a totally different chemistry to our, with life composed of completely different elements
Like on some planet like the moon titan, with seas of methane and a water/ice mantle
the I realized, to a creature that lives on titan, earth would be the equivalent of a lava world, with seas of liquid water, the solid stuff that their ground is made of, populated by horrible lava creatures, so hot they would burn you alive if you tried to fuck 'em
an they'd probably lose their dicks to frostbite if they tried to fuck you
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>>2907772
This is really interesting as well, but it's very, very hard to pull off.
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>>2896283
Sounds sweet, mind giving the source?
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>>2905736
they would most likely need mutualistic microbe to digest metal. there exists bacteria that gain energy from oxidising iron. think of it as similar to how they currently digest wood.
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>>2907033
>>2907036
is this greenworld?
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>>2907838
No, the article from "Omni" magazine, 1981, as I remember.
"Visions of Man Evolved" by Pamela Weintraub.
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>>2907358
>living television screens made out of cephalopod skin
rad
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>>2890010
>>2890233
>>2890026
neat
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>>2895260
>pinnipeds
giant smooith mink
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Imagine squirrels the size of bears, black headed terrapins with long necks and skin flaps that stretch out to help them absorb more sunlight, or baor like omnivorous dogs.
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>>2907063
Damn, thanks anon. Had a feeling i should pop into this thread
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>>2886326

What does /an/ think of Ambulocosmos?

https://www.deviantart.com/dragonthunders/art/Ambulocosmus-the-vacuum-voyager-737407076
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>>2895279
Bats are currently bound to a limited amount of roles, and their wing structure seems to restrict their size. Currently they are mostly small to medium insectavores or predators of small vertebrates, for which teeth are quite useful and at their weight rainge not much of a hiderence. Teeth start becoming a problem when you're a large long distance glider looking for whetever efficiency you can afford.

I could possibly see some nectar eating bats loosing their teeth, but unless birds die out and allow bats to radiate out in to different roles they're likely to stay pretty much unchanged, as they have done since their early forms.
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>>2907738
Пиздoбoл?
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>>2895279
>>2909669

I liked the idea so I did give it a quick shitty go after. I thought it would be cool for the nose leaves in bats to develop out in to a thick leathery sheath similar to a platypus. I dunno if it's stupid. Have a sea fairing leathery billed bat.
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how would aquatic venus flytraps work?
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Can someone design a purely land based future evolution of man that is quadrupedal?
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>>2909877
Why tho. I suppose if we descended from baboons or something I guess? But then we'd lose the ability to finely manipulate things with our hands, because they'd have to be partially weight bearing.

Also "The Future Is Wild" sort of did that, although they look like absolute ass.
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>>2909683
Haвepнo
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>>2909858
sea anemones go extinct and aquatic plantlife fills the niche
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>>2909877
For this to happen, something catastrophic would need to occur where the current way human live is no longer viable, some massive apocalypse where human technology is wiped out and large, aggressive predators are introduced, forcing humans to focus purely on survival over invention and innovation
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>>2909974

Even then its hard to go back from being bipedal to being quadrupedal, everything about our physiology is now set up for bipedalism so we'd just carry on modifying from that body plan. Unless there was a pressure that selected against bipedalism specifically, it would be unlikely that there would be an advantage to dropping back on to all fours when doing so is physically difficult and inefficient for us.

Also we survived such disasters and predators purely through being able to use weapons and tools.

You'd have to go way back to our quadrupedal ancestors and possibly explore what lines we would have taken had we not developed bipedalism. It's entirely possible that language and complex society could have developed in a more ape like animal, however hands have been pretty crucial in being able to craft complex tools and manipulate materials.

A quadrupedal knuckle walker or baboon like animal might be able to do this to a lesser degree, but it would be likely that more advanced technology, and also potentially writing and art, could not be developed.
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>>2910006
I was thinking in terms of humans having to revert back to living as animals, but you're right it's far more likely they'd develop adaptations for better bipedal locomotion, possibly even digitigrade legs, seeing as though humans run on the balls of their feet when barefoot, and our feed did develop to be longer than other primates when we took to two legs
fuck that would look weird. Some man after man shit, probably.

Maybe humans who are forced into closed quarters or even subterranean life would develop quadrupedalism
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>>2909843
I like it.
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>>2910016
>mole men

Maybe something along the lines of naked mole rats, blind burrowing sausage humans that live to serve a gigantic corpulant queen

>man after man

Yeah something along the lines of those desert-rat humans maybe. I could see digitgrade feet if we had to prioritize spinting over long distance endurance
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>>2910035
Thank you friend
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>>2901677
It just works
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>>2909843
aww, he's like a mammal albatross

I want one
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>>2909843
this is great
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>>2909858
They exist and theyre called bladderworts
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>>2893710
>>2893893
From what I understand about the production of that documentary, the gannet whales were meant to be a penguin derivative but they ran into some kind of copyright issue with the publisher of Dixon's After Man (which features penguin whales) and so they were changed to gannets.
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>>2902266
Under modern circumstances maybe, but all you need is some sort of scenario where bats manage to replace birds in most niches and become the more dominant flying vertebrate, so that it then becomes likely enough for bats to reach and adapt to an island long before birds can.

I'm not sure what kind of event would cause that without also adversely affecting bats just as strongly, but clearly it must be possible given how extinction events have happened in the past (e.g. pterosaurs going extinct/rapidly declining in diversity while birds explode over the course of the jurassic and cretaceous).
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>>2907344
Not being able to create civilization doesn't mean you can't be sapient. Humanity and our relatives already had our current level of intelligence long before we ever developed things like fire or structures. Dolphins are arguably already sapient as well.
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>>2902246
We really don't know enough about how life spans evolve to answer that question.

We can estimate, for example, how likely it would be for humans to become shorter or taller because we know what kind of environmental pressures lead to selection of such traits, smaller animals need less food, for one, so small size can be an adaptation to limited resources, among other reasons. We don't know why humans evolved to naturally live for an average of ~60 years though, nor do we know why Greenland sharks evolved to live for centuries or why lobsters have evolved to be immortal. If we don't know the reasons such traits evolve, we can't come up with plausible explanation for how they could evolve in the future.
>>
Okay legitimate question, as it was posted earlier in thread. Since pinnipeds are pretty close to bears and marmots, would it be possible for a "de" evolution of a seal/sea-lion into a bear/weasel like animal? They behave very similarly to canids due to their semi-social behavior
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>>2904894
I think the best idea would be to come up with some kind of interesting keystone species. Very few people are going to be interested in your project just because they heard it was set on a planet with 2/3rds Earth's gravity or has a methane heavy atmosphere. But if you tell them that, for example, your planet has a biome centered around a species of aquatic plant that clumps together to form dense mats of floating vegetation several acres in size and able to support a diverse range of animal life living on, inside, and under the plants? Then you've got a hook.

From there, you design the planet's properties to fit this interesting species you've developed. For example, maybe its oceans would have to be particularly mineral rich in order for such a plant to be able to grow without being rooted in soil, perhaps the rotation would need to be relatively slow so as to create calmer oceans that wouldn't tear the mats apart with storms, maybe you decided the plant should be purple because that's a cool colour and so you give the planet an atmosphere of a certain composition and density that would make a purple chlorophyll analogue the most efficient way to gather sunlight.
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>>2910964
They could if the niche for a land carnivore is open to them
Sea lions are much more agile on land than seals are, so it would most likely be them, especially since wolves and bears have been so badly displaced by humans in the US.
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>>2910964
>>2910972
I personally like the idea of pinnipeds becoming huge and plesiosaur-like
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>>2891853
Ahem.
>>
Name a stronger speculative animal.

Protip: you can't
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>>2910998
this interests me
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>>2888798
Alien creatures with tetrapod limb structure.
Also this.
>>2891853
>>
>>2911439
Oh lordy christ this. I enjoyed this as a piece of fun fiction, but its basically a textbook on how not to do speculative biology.
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>>2909877
Found this
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Wtf are people talking about water, evolution is like this... Look : http://dapalan.com/APSF
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>>2911566
That's more space future sci-fi cyberbollocks. Awesome artwork and concept, not really along the lines of possible natural evolution.
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>>2911574
i hope you realise they were talking about the guys from man after man (which is a fucking spec evo book) you dumbass
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>>2911566
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*ahem*
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>>2912643
So what?
>>
I'm a decent drawer. Give me a speculative evolution suggestion - future evo, xenobio, what have you - and I'll draw it for ya.
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>>2913441
draw each evangelion angel as a scientifcally plausible creature, picrelated
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>>2913446
Gay. Rejected.
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>>2913448
well thats what i expected

maybe draw
>>2891884
>>2891886
>>
>>2913449
Yeah, maybe.
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>>2913441
lol post art mongrel
>>
>>2913446
Why do you alwyas request this you gay retard
>>
>>2913441
One of these
>>2909243
>>
If mermaids were to exist. Would they be mammals? Would their eyes be big or small? What about the hair and the blubber?
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>>2913629
depends on how you define mermaid
If it looks like pic related, it's very unlikely that it evolved from a hominid or any mammal, a human upper torso and fish tail is a very poor adaptation for any aquatic animal to take, unless, somehow, a fish species developed it as an advanced form of mimicry to either prey on, or for whatever reason fuck humans.

If a homonid adapted to an aquatic lifestyle, it would be pretty differant to this. Hair creates too much drag in the water, so forget a long flowing head of hair, definitely would be blubbery, I can't see them both losing their legs to for a tail like flipper and keeping their arms and grasping hands, but I guess if the conditions call for it somehow, it could happen, though I can't picture what those conditions are
Of course, the human body plan is pretty unique among terrestrial mammals, maybe their aquatic cousins would be unique among sea mammals. Maybe something like the mermaids in that fake animal planet documentary, but less pretty.
>>
>>2913655
these are the ones i'm talking about, animal planets attempt at a realistic take on mermaids, based on the aquatic ape hypothesis, and that, while homo sapiens took back to the land, another branch went into the sea.

But their faces are way too human, not well optimized for aquatic life. especially the nose. I'd picture an aquatic hominid with a nose set higher on their head, with nostrils that can close underwater
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>>2913658
oop forgot pic lol
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>>2913660
>>2913658
maybe something a bit more like this, and i'm still being generous.
>>
the only thing that interests me about speculative evolution is whether or not mankind with adapt to its own technology.
it would be a unique case of a species driving the course of its own evolution, and i think it would be a good thing. eugenics have a role to play in the future of man im sure
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>>2913737
Religion (western ones) will stand in the way of this unfortunately
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>>2913546
Ok. Here's a sketch of a bear sized predatory squirrel evolved to fill a hyena like niche as a bullying scavenger. Didn't feel like coloring it.
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>>2914047
now that is epic
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>>2892955
How old is this? Was it that ugly? I remember my young eyes thinking the animations weren't that bad. But
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>>2909843
Aww, i came to this tread expecting silly bullshit, but this is great!
>>
>>2906012
If you wanna do wacky shit just draw whatever animal fitting into whatever other niche and there you go.
A squid is now a monkey, a monkey is now a fish.
Or do like
>>2897695
>>2909843
And take into consideration ongoing evolutionary paths and known adaptations.
here's an idea, flying squirrels becoming actual flying creatures. not with fingered wings but with feet and arms together joined by a membrane and hanging upside down from trees with tails.
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>>2913655
No tail, but joined feet like sea lions and no blowhole either.
I get so pissed at creationists asking about missing links and half wings when there are sea lions, seal, sea cows, dolphins and whales and when there are varying degrees of flying squirrel and bats.
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how could a plausible picrelated realistically look like and act like?
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>>2914269
>live on the lakebed
>walk around on two legs
>capable of swimming
>can come to the surface and clumsily lumber over to the next lake
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>>2914269
This would probably be a burrowing creature like very early shell-less turtles. It would presumably be evolved from one of the legless lizards or amphisbaenians that still have forelimbs.
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>>2895321
Birds didn't evolve beaks, they already had them during gestation. The bird is the infantilized phenotype of a dinosaur.
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>>2914302
>birds didn't evolve beaks
Oh, so they just appeared out of nowhere, huh?
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>>2914269
Already exist, search up sirenidae
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>>2914269
one things for sure is that it would need another 2 legs in the back if its living on land
>>
whats a spec evo project everyone should read at some point?
>>
/specbio/ is the worst general
>man after man
>wingless bats
>whale squid
>complaining about discord

>>2913446
and now you have anime
>>
>>2914441
>and now you're complaining in discord
O B S E S S E D
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>>2914468
but seriously I have nothing against speculative biology/evolution but you lot are fucking retarded and cling onto retarded ideas
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>>2914302
Oviraptors always have beaks, though, and birds didn't evolve from oviraptors, they evolved from dromaeosaurids, or at least a close relative of them. Archaeopteryx didn't have a beak.
>>
frogfish that became semi-aquatic predators in tidal flats, walking across the mud
Either burrowing into the silt and using their lure to draw small birds & crustaceans or disguising as shit like they do now but I don’t know what would be an effective mudflat disguise
>>
yesterday at conversatory class on astrobiology we were thinking about life on planets with other variables than earth
and we came to conclusion that for example if we had red dwarf instead of sun- then we would not have green plants but red plants
also if gravitation was stronger animals would be more sturdy
if gravitation was less strong- plants would have less developed roots and they would be higher
if earth was 100% water- then there would be no compartmentation so lower chances for abiogenesis
if water had no liquid water but ice- then organisms could survive by dissolving H2O2 to regulate osmosis (earth organisms living in ice do it now)
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>>2914572
I feel like it'd be far more likely for the already semi-terrestrial fishes like mudskippers or lungfish to evolve a similar hunting strategy than for frogfish to become amphibious.
>>
>thinking about spec world where my local zoo is isekai'd into another (empty) world
>easy and simple explanation to just use famous animals as the bases for evolutionary paths

>logically, the animals could only survive in the original transplant point for million of years because the lack of ecosystem elsewhere
>logically, the genetic for breeding is fucked and most animals would die a slow generational death, if they havent been neutered before, anyway
>logicall, its the adaptive stowaways (feral cats, mouse, ants, that thrive on zoo's waste) to be the one that holds on and survive

If such scenario happened to your local zoo, which animals would probably survive, anons? they all were freed from their cages, ofc
>>
Hey give me requests, I want to draw.
>>
>>2910998
Where'd you find this picture? I'm Kosemen's biggest fan but have never seen this one...
>>
>>2915076
>>2914765
Predatory mudskipper
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>>2887313
Some sort of large constrictor, big enough to consume an adult human, camouflaged to blend in with sidewalk/pavement, and primarily nocturnal. It would stalk low-traffic areas in the city, sticking to alleyways and other secluded places and seeking out lone humans. They could have some sort of paralytic venom to prevent their victim from calling out for help. If not, they could just make an effort to go for the larynx on the initial strike. They operate in pairs when mating, widening their chances of finding viable prey because they can attack couples. One of the snakes could make the initial attack on one of the couple, while its mate lingers behind it, and attacks the other human who's likely frantically trying to free their buddy. Since the second human is more likely to escape, the mating pair would take turns being the first to strike. These Urban constrictors would lay their eggs on rooftops, where their young could feed on birds until they grow big enough to slither their way down the sides of the building and into any entrance they can find, to prey on sleeping pets and small children.
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Could a species of squid who hunted in big swarms and used cooperation to take down larger prey hypothetically bypass the “their lifespan limits their potential” because there would be a constant exchange of information/strategy through the sheer numbers

a Humboldt squid hivemind
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*blocks your evolutionary path*
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>>2886923
Cave dwellers were the the descendants of the woodland dweller that started living in a cave and killed one of the memory people
The ones you posted are hivers
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>>2886326
Just a quick reminder guys that Sheather hasnt updated project serina for almost 6 months now.
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/conceptual_evolution/member-project-serina-t2587-s1290.html?sid=e258dcc26cacf4c6ad4d6d5d1cabd3c0
I'm missing my fucking birds
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>>2907033
>>2907036
Choose your path
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>>2911566
more sci-fi then spec evo
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>>2915817
I want them to go even farther into the future just to see how weird it get.
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I updated my "Blue Chimera" page.
sivatherium.na_rod.r_u/specbiol/specbiol.h_tm

Two articles from Russian magazine "Mir fantastiki" ("World of Science Fiction") written by Igor Kraj are added:

"Flight on the umbrella" - the possible appearance of the world where atmosphere is 100 times denser compared to Earth air.
sivatherium.n_arod.r_u/articles/kray/umbrell2.h_tm

"Different chemistry. Non-protein life" - possibilities for alternative biochemistry of alien lifeforms.
sivatherium.nar_od.r_u/articles/kray/chemicl2.h_tm

My own translation into English. Read and enjoy!
I can't put here direct links to these articles - filter regards it as s_p_a_m. Try to remove gaps to read these articles.
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>>2900907
>which.
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implying evolution is real
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>>2907068
they did though?
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>>2912643
getting my sister new dinosaurs for her birthday
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>>2907275
meant for
>>2907068
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>>2916493
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what is a ceyptid
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>>2916673
it's a new animal discovered
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>>2916659
thnx u
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new thread

>>2916679
>>
new thread

>>2916679
>>2916679
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>>2916681
this thread has neither hit bump limit nor image limit, why are you making a new one?
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>>2916683
wait it did
weird, I thought the /an/ bump limit was 400 for some reason
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>>2886416
its because 4chan was blacklisted by tons of ad companies

gookmoot wants more ad revenue, so he made the sfw boards domain on 4channel like people wont still post loli on /v/ and /pol/shit sitewide

*ahem*

FUCK HIRO
FUCK RECAPTCHA
FUCK 4CHAN PASS
FUCK JANNIES
FUCK TRANNIES
FUCK NIGGERS
FUCK KIKES
FUCK MUSLIMS
AND FUCK ABBOS



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