[a / b / c / d / e / f / g / gif / h / hr / k / m / o / p / r / s / t / u / v / vg / vr / w / wg] [i / ic] [r9k / s4s / vip / qa] [cm / hm / lgbt / y] [3 / aco / adv / an / asp / bant / biz / cgl / ck / co / diy / fa / fit / gd / hc / his / int / jp / lit / mlp / mu / n / news / out / po / pol / qst / sci / soc / sp / tg / toy / trv / tv / vp / wsg / wsr / x] [Settings] [Search] [Home]
Board
Settings Home
/adv/ - Advice



Thread archived.
You cannot reply anymore.




File: 1432875189854.jpg (314 KB, 500x675)
314 KB
314 KB JPG
What changed in the past couple of decades that men are being told they need to "learn game" and that "attracting and keeping a woman is a skill"? Did our fathers and grandfathers, and their fathers and grandfathers, have to learn the "art" of attracting a woman? Did they need to read books and take classes and keep "practicing their game" or did they just, ya know, meet a woman out somewhere that they got along with, got a yes when they asked her out, and the rest is history?
>>
nothing has changed
>>
>>20452565
Yea, It's a fact that the dating game was easier back then.
>>
>>20452573
Are you sure? The male dating advice industry is a pretty recent phenomenon, or so I've read.
>>
>>20452580
Yeah because a bunch of men didn't have fathers
>>
Easy communication and travel. In the old days your dating pool was limited by physical location.
>>
I think it's more men feel entitled to women but can't force them into staying anymore, look at countries where this is common, the women run the fuck away. Women always have the power so men feel annoyed they have to be decent enough for women to want them now.

In general a lot of women are entitled now too, in general.

People in the past worked the same way as today depending on time period and culture there were different expectations to courting without technology but people haven't changed much, just less life skills and more entitlement. Soon we'll have cars that drive themselves and robots to do almost everything. People will adjust to this expectation, but also it will change how we court yet again.

The guys learning game don't realize they have offputting personalities and that it really isn't hard for the average man to meet a woman.
>>
It wasn't easier, men tried harder
They all got jobs, worked hard, and most valued their appearance. They learned the "game" and they didn't rot their brains on porn. They furthered their education and their skills in order to be the head of a household and bread winner.

Most guys now are sloppy, live with their parents, and jerk off all day.
>>
>>20452565
Back in the day it was easier to be successful coupled with the fact that most men beat the shit out of their kids making men have a "rough" edge to them. Both of those things are major factors in attracting a woman.
>>
>>20452589
I do sort of miss the pre-online days or at least when women couldn't constantly be in contact with an ex, who could simply text her "I miss you babe" after not talking to her for six months and have her running back to him, dumping her current guy in the process.

Then again, it probably doesn't matter that much. Maybe the internet just amplifies and puts on display dating patterns that have always been around. It might be too soon to draw conclusions as to exactly how things like Tinder have, if at all, actually influenced dating as a opposed to simply showing us things we already sort of knew.
>>
>>20452600
Not true
>>
>>20452592
As if. I'm pretty sure if I had a good career and were successful at my hobbies, I still wouldn't be able to compete against a woman's ability to go on Tinder/OkCupid and find someone with better facial genetics. Back then you had to leave the house to meet anyone and even if you joined a club or a church, you would have access to maybe 10-15 suitable non-taken men. The more options you have, the harder it is to make a choice. It's a lot easier to figure out out of 15 men which one you want to give a chance versus 100 guys, and 10 new guys each day. People are all about optimization and perfection nowadays, they don't want to settle in case a better guy pops up on a dating site the next day.
>>
>>20452634
Not all women use Tinder and even the ones that do, do not all think the same kind of guy is attractive. I'm a mixed guy, and short, so I'm painfully aware of the fact that my taller, Caucasian brethren typically fair better in online dating etc. However, I've also had women be insanely attracted to my appearance as well as my personality (and they've told me so). What you might wanna ask yourself is this: just how many women do you want interested in you, and what type of woman would you want to be with in a longer term relationship? I know that if I had even just a few girls interested in me it would be tricky, because I really want to just settle down with a "nice girl" (vague, generic shit, I know, I'm sorry). A lot of male dating advice seems to assume the reader just wants to get laid and have many girlfriends, or it tells you that's the proper way to go about it. While it's not wrong for many guys, it's also not right for all guys. I don't disagree that you may have to date many women or even just more than one, before you find a suitable marriage partner, if that's what you want. But I also don't think it's necessary you push for sex too quickly in order to make her fall in love with you - really, the biggest criticism anyone could have for dating advice, it's the idea that you can never be rejected again, so long as your game is good enough. You can do everything "right" and not get with someone who isn't interested - on the other hand a woman who's really into you will be more forgiving of "BIG ATTRACTION KILLING MISTAKES!!!" like texting too soon.
>>
>>20452565
The dating market has become more competitive now than it was back in the, say, 50's and 60's. Back in those days, women were more dependent on a finding a man. Back then, as long as you had a decent job and you were able to provide for a woman and her children, you were desirable enough to quite easily find a girlfriend and eventually wife her up. In fact. often times you didn't even have to go around looking for girls yourself. Sometimes your family might even set you up with someone elses daughter who was available. Women nowadays are less in need of a man because they can take care of themselves mostly. Thus, their standards have risen. Being an average Joe isn't good enough anymore to both seduce and keep hold of a decently attractive woman. Women in their early twenties no longer want to settle down with an average guy. They would rather stay single and try and lock down a high quality guy.

It's simply economics. The demand for men has fallen, while the supply has stayed the same. In fact, i would argue that supply has kind of increased due to dating apps like Tinder which has given women ultimate access to random dickings if they want. Every woman nowadays who is atleast a 7/10 in looks has random dick thrown her way every single day. This definitely wasn't the case when your grandfather was in his youth looking for a girlfriend.

>Tl;dr
Dating has become more difficult for men because the standards of women have increased.
>>
>>20452655
It's fine if women have standards, they should always be allowed standards. That said? Just because women can provide for themselves and live an amazing life, doesn't mean they will. Women can be "losers", just like men can. I know some who still live with or otherwise very heavily rely on the parents for financial things. Yeah, you're allowed to be 26, in poor physical shape, have an entry level job and still set the bar for a man in your life no lower than six feet or taller, fix figure salary and massive social value. That doesn't mean those guys will be interested in you or want you for anything other than sex.

Now I don't want to be confused as some kinda incel for what I just said, so I'll add that I don't think all or even *most* women have too high standards. If anything, the standard I've come across that's the most common is "we have a connection", and I know plenty of women who won't care as much about financial security or even looks so long as they feel really strongly about the guy. This can of course swing the wrong way when some asshole takes advantage of and manipulates her for sex etc., but overall if a woman just wants to be with a guy she feels strongly for and would rather stay single than be with someone she doesn't actually feel in love with, it's for everyone's benefit. Men should be doing the same thing, honestly.
>>
A more competitive dating market, and rising expectations and ego, meeting decling living standards from a destroyed/poorly organized/rigged economy.

The most materially equal period of the last 1000 years of hunman history was the start of WW1 till the end of WW2. The 50's were built on the back of a 1000 year engima and people act like it's the garden variety life.
>>
>>20452565
Our grandfathers learned the game from their fathers, cousins and older brothers. We didn't have the same luck.
>>
>>20452565
Men are being told that by other men. It’s capitalism, selling a fix to men who are unsuccessful with women. Before you were the weird uncle who died unmarried without kids, or the weird guy with the weird wife. There were plenty of them. Now it’s the creepy rapey uncle who watches youtube videos made by douchebags trying to make a dime off him.
>>
>>20452686

I agree with your sentiment but saying guys will only want them for sex says a lot more about men than women. And it doesnt show them in a good light. If anyone gives women more reasons to be very particular to avoid that.

Btw I'm a different person but have posted my own response
>>
>>20452686

>Yeah, you're allowed to be 26, in poor physical shape, have an entry level job and still set the bar for a man in your life no lower than six feet or taller, fix figure salary and massive social value. That doesn't mean those guys will be interested in you or want you for anything other than sex.
But to be honest, this kind of sums op the dating market in today's world. It's just the reality of the world we live in.

The majority of women who have barely anything to offer still think they can snag a high quality guy or atleast a guy who is hot. Problem is, these men only want them for sex and will never truly commit. So you're left with the majority of women hopelessly chasing after the minority of guys, while the majority of men are left scraping out whatever is left at the bottom.

If you want to become successful in today's dating market as a guy, you need to put serious effort into becoming high quality. Either be better looking than average, or be more successful than average. You need SOMETHING. Being mediocre (or heck, below-average) on all fronts is a recipe for inceldom in 2019.
>>
>>20452565
Rich, powerful, and/or attractive men have always gotten pussy and always will. More importantly, though, is that there is a capitalist market today (that there wasn't really before), feeding off of young men's insecurities on finding sex or love. This is a new industry preying on men, but women have had almost exactly the same capitalist market feeding off of young girls' insecurities about finding love for decades. In other words, your inability is manufactured through capitalism to convince you that expensive watches, expensive fashionable clothes, expensive cologne, expensive cars, expensive hobbies, and gold memberships for dating sites are the "markers" for success. It's the same shit as women thinking they need expensive jewelry, expensive makeup, expensive fashionable clothes, expensive perfume, and expensive diets and meme workouts to attract a guy. It's all bullshit homie. People have found people without this shit for millennia, just don't buy into the cult and find a bitch who also doesn't buy into the cult. Anyone selling you how to fuck/date "like a pro" is preying on your insecurities that you're not already enough for a girl. Don't fall for that shit.
>>
>>20452565
Back then men were taught to be men. That's all they needed to attract a women. Now young boys are brought up in a feminized society, they've been blurring the line between masculine and feminine, teaching boys completely untrue things about life, women, and love. So now we have a generation of men who have come of age but haven't learned how to be men. We are disillusioned and dumb-founded when we encounter the truth. It's not easy to recover from that.
>>
>>20452751
yeah fuck the bourgeois, proletariat rise up my fellow redditor!
>>
>be OP
>be edgy teenager virgin
>think he is an expert on what dating was like before he was born
>>
>>20452589
I think this more than anything is the problem. With globalization you can easily find people from all over the world in a lot of locations on a daily basis. Meaning, people have plenty of options and they know this so naturally they will be very careful about who they date to get the best deal. So if you want a date, you have to stand out somehow.
>>
>>20452790
Memeing doesn't make it untrue. OP asked why people need to take classes and read books on how to date today, and the answer is that people don't. They're just gullible idiots with low self-esteem.
>>
>>20452749
Kind of sums it up, in the sense that yes...women will use old to try to "bat out of their league" and have realized they can. I know many overweight women who fully admit to using stuff like Tinder to find hookups with dudes on a frequent basis, and they've acknowledged how much easier it is for them than guys to get said hookups. Some of them at least, have already realized that those hookups will not lead to anything, and one even recently described herself as a "lonely bitch".

To me you don't have to be insanely "high value" to get a girl. That's where incels get it wrong. No sane "average" woman thinks she has a real chance with a professional athlete like Tom Brady or Sidney Crosby. No reasonable "average" man thinks this is what he needs to do before *any* woman will love him. Obviously, if you're a guy and only ever want to date 21 y.o. sorority girls with gorgeous bodies, and you haven't the social means to meet them or the looks to match them, you'll probably not do so well. Similarly if you're a girl who's overweight and sits around all day watching Netflix, it's probably unreasonable for you to expect a shredded surfer frat boy to show up on your door step and ask you to marry him. I think this has been generally accepted wisdom for the longest time. When I look at some of the guys that female friends or coworkers get the hots for, some of them are not exceptional looking. Yeah, maybe they have some conventionally attractive features like being tall or having broad shoulders, but they're rarely the true image of "chad" that folks at r9k think you need to be before any woman likes you. At the same time, a lot of the girls crushing aren't amazing looking themselves if we're talking strictly genetics or weight related shit.

>>20452740
Oh I don't disagree with that, in fact I lose respect for guys who seem to use women for sex anyways. Not as a m'lady whiteknight but as someone who thinks it's just lacking empathy.
>>
>>20452777
What makes a man a man, anon?
>>
>>20452844
I don't know because they didn't teach me.
>>
>>20452839

>To me you don't have to be insanely "high value" to get a girl.
I'm not saying you have to be insanely high value. I'm just saying high value enough that women sense you're atleast somewhat above average. They have to feel like they can 'gain' something from being with you (hypergamy). You basically have 2 options:

>be successful, or make yourself look like you will be in the future
In other words, you should either be having a successful business, be working a well-paying job, or you're pursuing a very solid degree.

>be better looking
I'm not talking about being a male model. But i would say, if you're not successful like i described above, you need to be atleast a 7.5 out of 10 in terms of looks to compensate.

If you're a guy flipping burgers at mcdonalds, and you're bang-average in terms of looks, you are fucked my friend. No woman wants you.
>>
>>20452565
>What changed?

Smash Ultimate came out and it changed everything.
>>
>>20452869
>business, degree, or job
>if you're a guy flipping burgers at mcdonald's, and are bang average in terms of looks
Eh. The few guys I know, who are really good with women, to the point of being actual chads, didn't do these things. One just works at Target as a regular employee, not a manager or anything, but works out a lot and got seriously fit so women noticed him. The other one can't keep a job to save his life, he's just really good at partying and being the kind of fun that women are drawn to. The latter dude is not amazing looking and he said so himself.

Now, I won't lie and say you're completely wrong. If you have those things, you definitely have better chances and will probably have more interested women. But as someone who used to think like you constantly, I looked around and saw that it just wasn't true for the vast majority of relationships. If there is one thing dating advice as an industry taught me, it that's how you make a woman feel matters a lot. That's not to say her feelings are under your control, or should be, but basically, if she feels something - particularly, turned on - around you, then a lot of the time, that's all it really takes. And it's just so damn different from one woman to the next, what turns them on, and what doesn't.
>>
>>20452565
What changed? Almost every woman today thinks she's model tier. Today's women are the most arrogant women in history
>>
>>20452912
How hot are the women they are getting? This is just curiosity before you think i'm trying to disprove anything
>>
Man skills used to be celebrated, now they are considered toxic or even criminal.

My mother could behead and clean a chicken, because that is what you did. If the cat had kittens, grandpa would take most of them behind the barn and break their necks because that is what you did to keep the farm running smoothly.
>>
>>20452932
For the Target guy it depends, he had a lot of women of varying attractiveness interested in him, including cute, young teenagers and early 20's girls. For the other guy he claimed to bang models and I wouldn't doubt it. Personally I'll go back to my own anecdotes. For now I work a pretty basic retail job but am working on something better, and I've had women of varying attractiveness show interest. I think it becomes a little more nuanced than just "looks matching" though. Comparability plays a part, but it's not about liking the same music or movies, it's about lifestyle choices and values. As Mark Manson puts it, there's friction that can be had between two people trying to date. A high friction situation is when a STEM student who goes to parties once a year wants to date a super outgoing sorority girl who clubs every Friday and Saturday night. It's not necessarily that he's not good looking enough, as much as it is that they would be very unlikely to enjoy the same activities and value the same things in life.

Don't get me wrong, some people care a lot about looks and have a specific 'type' they won't budge on. I'd even hazard most people do. But there's a good enough amount of people who care less about looks specific things like race or height and care more about a solid connection - this isn't to be confused with thinking you can let yourself go completely and still have no issue getting women. You have to bring *something* to the table.
>>
>>20452942
That's savagery. It happens a lot below the border. My mom told me she and a bunch of kids beat a poor female dog to the point she was coughing up pieces of something. She did it because they had an uncle that told them to kill her. The dog survived but barely. There have been and still are a lot of people like that today. Trump wasn't completely off the mark when he used stereotypes on certain people. The only ones that can put an end to these cycles of savagery are the young kids.
>>
File: gdrdating.jpg (181 KB, 1024x764)
181 KB
181 KB JPG
Interesting anecdote about money and dating in the German Democratic Republic.
>>
>Did our fathers and grandfathers, and their fathers and grandfathers, have to learn the "art" of attracting a woman?

Nothing changed.

You only hear about the men who had children.

Some were naturals and some had to learn, but you only hear the success stories. Confirmation bias.

A lot of men died childless throughout history, but nobody remembers their story because there's no one left to tell it.
>>
>>20452565
>in the past couple of decades
>our fathers

the fuck are you talking about in I'm my 30s and nothing changed in the past couple of decades

EXCEPT

the internet became a tool to spread terrible ideas around to sad idiots. Which is why incels and PUA didn't exist up until a few years ago.

Also previous generations knew to settle and to accept that they were ugly or fat or autistic, so they would settle for a fat autistic ugly partner instead of having sex with anime pilllows while waiting for a 10/10 unicorn gf that doesn't exist for them.

In the 90s you still had to know how to talk to a girl and all that shit, it is a skill like any other social skill. The only difference is that there wasn't failed Chads trying to shill their books and youtube channels and Patreon on incel websites like 4chan.
>>
>>20453003
Before internet incels grew up and left the basement. Now they have an echo chamber and stay incels longer because of this cultist movement thing.
>>
>>20453003
>incels didn't exist until a few years ago
Nah, they've existed forever, see >>20452992

>PUA's didn't exist until a few years ago
I think the very first ushering in of PUA culture came about with Neil Strauss' book "The Game" which has been out for many years now

>you still had to know how to talk to girls
Of course, most guys go through this period of trial and error. But now, we have people like Coach Corey Wayne saying you need to buy his book and read it fifteen or twenty times before you're ready to date and keep a woman. Imagine. No, you can't just like go out and talk to girls and botch a few interactions before you meet someone who likes you back. No, it's a fucking process now, that's conveniently locked behind paywalls.
>>
>>20452731
I know two guys who immigrated from the middle east. When they got around the ages of 12-13 their father would tell them about their experience with women, what worked and what didn't, what they liked and what they didn't. Even sexually. Those guys are pretty decent with women. Sure, they get rejected like any other man but theyre more confident about taking the role of initiating and charming. When I've got a son I'll tell him stuff too
>>
>>20453012
Exactly. They didn't even call themselves either that concept literally didn't exist until a few years ago.

When a kid back then couldn't get laid he was just like "oh well I guess I'm not the tight type of guy for those girls maybe I should go meet girls at the Blink 182 concert and do something with my hair" and now it's REEEEE FEMINAZIS CULTURAL MARXISM THIS IS BECAUSE OF MY GENES AND MY PARENTS AND CELL PHONES

It's a sad sad culture of victimhood
>>
Men have always needed game to score with plenty of women

But in ages past women were declawed so they had to shut up and accept who their parents liked
>>
Honestly it's just a symptom of our fucked up society. There are so many awful things in Western society that contribute to the current state that it's not a coincidence that everybody is awful and only looking out for themselves. It's just the logical way to survive in the great satan that is America.

Hopefully we will be cleansed by nuclear fire soon.
>>
>>20453020
>Nah, they've existed forever, see >>20452992

Virgins are not necessarily incels. Incels literally didn't exist in culture until like 2014 or some shit.

>I think the very first ushering in of PUA culture came about with Neil Strauss' book "The Game" which has been out for many years now

2005 is still a a few years ago. You can probably find books that are like HOW TO SWEET-TALK GALS INTO GOING TO PROM WITH YOU IN A HEALTHY CHRISTIAN WAY from the 1940s and whatever but again those aren't PUA.

>Of course, most guys go through this period of trial and error. But now, we have people like Coach Corey Wayne saying you need to buy his book and read it fifteen or twenty times before you're ready to date and keep a woman. Imagine. No, you can't just like go out and talk to girls and botch a few interactions before you meet someone who likes you back. No, it's a fucking process now, that's conveniently locked behind paywalls.

It's sad, people who grew up online are terrified of real-world experiences and trial and error so they pray to google to find a 'cheat code" that will let them find a gf. There's no such thing.
>>
>>20452844
It means playing a roll. That isn't something bad per se, it can get you far.
>>
>>20452971
No, savegery is letting the family farm be overrun with cats so the family ends up homeless.

Life is hard and sometimes hard things need to be done. It used to be women appreciated the men who had the skills and balls to do what has to be done to care for the family and the country. Now those same skills our considered savagery.
>>
>>20453042
Most people don't live on a rat-infested farm, dipshit
>>
Sexual revolution and Tinder basically fucked everything up for us. For me, it was especially very odd to see a 6'4 fit blond guy with a fatty who even I wouldn't date holding hands together. Made me think of how low I need to go as a manlet.
But I'm more curious about what women think of the current society or they simply don't care and don't mind being used as fucktoys by Chads. One thing they must know is that there will always be consequences when you got millions of lonely men in the country even if you don't care about having a stable society. Once it collapses, it will affect you also.
>>
>>20453060
Literally the Hell that is pervasive globohomo is designed for single women. The progressive movements, the garbage "premium" take out restaurants like Panera Bread, Tinder. It all caters to them.
>>
>>20453060
I've seen plenty of short guys with good looking women. That doesn't mean they're not rejected over height, but it also means said men are not hopeless in dating.

What you shouldn't do is feel "entitled" to a babe or care about looks above everything...if you want lasting love that is.

I don't disagree that women who like being used as sex toys for guys who don't care about them are a red flag. At best it means the women themselves are emotionally unavailable and seek the same in their partners. At worst, they are executing the dual-mating strategy that's touted in red-pill, that alpha fucks beta bucks shit. As much as we don't wanna believe it happens, I think it does, even if on a small scale.
>>
Two things come to mind:

1) A lack of unsupervised childhood socialization.

Most people born after roughly 1990 don't actually know how to engage with people because their parents locked them inside due to the over reporting of child abductions in the 1990's leading to a cultural panic. This severely stunted the development of social skills, as children need thousands of truly unregulated interactions to get a feel for any social aspect. Any social interactions within structured settings like school, child care, or sports were insufficient because they were always under the direct supervision of adults. There is no such degree of supervision in the adult world, so young adults are left at a disadvantage.

2) An exponentially larger dating pool.

There are now literally millions of options at the fingertips of women, where up to roughly the 1970's their choices were typically limited by proximity from the low end of around a dozen, to a few hundred on the upper end. This is compounded by the issues mentioned in my first point, because being trapped inside gave them ample amounts of time to internalize romantic fetishization through media in a social vacuum. Not only do men have to be more appealing than the millions of actual men available to women, men also have to compete with warped facsimiles of men portrayed in all works of fiction that are engineered to be engaging to female desires to an intentionally addicting degree.
>>
>>20453060
>I can't get a date so that means society will collapse, this is all Tinder's fault

news flash: you wouldn't have been able to get a date 15 years ago when Tinder didn't exist.
>>
>>20453079
>Most people born after roughly 1990 don't actually know how to engage with people because their parents locked them inside due to the over reporting of child abductions in the 1990's leading to a cultural panic.

what the fuck are you talking about what cultural panic in the 1990s you sound like you were born in 2000, kids in the 90s would run around outside playing Pogs and their parents actively chased them out of the house to go play street hockey or whatever because they didn't want them to play Nintendo for more than an hour or two at a time.

What fucked young adults living today was them spending 16 hours a day on 4chan and watching porn when they were like 7 years old.
>>
>>20452565
Women have agency now. Back in the day, even if she was raped and beaten everyday by her husband she would be ostracized for getting a divorce.
>>
>>20453081
>projecting this much
Go back to tumblr and I've been on plenty of dates, but you're fucking retarded if you think there won't be consequences due to millions of lonely men who were raised by single mothers who got fucked and dumped.
>>
>>20453087
le citation need
>>
>>20453088
I don't think you know what projecting means. I'm not the one proclaiming the end of civilization because I once saw a fatty on a date with a man I thought was attractive.

>millions of lonely men who were raised by single mothers who got fucked and dumped.

What is this train of logic? Why are you now blaming mommy for you not being able to get a date?
>>
>>20453095
Who hurt you?
>>
>>20452565
Nothing really has changed. The only difference is that now this behavior is out in the open. Also, a lot of men don't realize how highly competitive dating has become. Girls that are 2/10 will still get 100's of messages through online dating thus inflating their egos and making then not settle down because they believe they are of higher value. The best comment on women I have ever heard has come from Married with Childer: " Women are never satisfied." once you realize this you will relax some. In my last relationship I fell hard for a women that I believed ( and this is the huge mistake most men make) was mature and past playing childish games. Like I really loved this women. she wanted us to be in an actual relationship after dating for some time. I would take her out all the time. buy her flowers and gifts all the time and drop them off at her job. Not in a weird you owe me sex incel kind of way but just because. Found out she met a guy online and cheated on me with him while I was at work. this kinda of stuff can easily turn a man bitter against all women... but thats just the way things are. just work on yourself. No matter how well your treat a women or how much you give up to make her "happy" she can be won over by some guy online. Women like playing games until they are the ones losing. this is why on online dating sites the women in their 30s always post " dont waste my time" "done playing games" their biological clock is ticking and they have become desperate.
>>
>>20453095
>I don't think you know what projecting means.
You implied that I can't get a date without knowing me. But things will definitely change in the future, you're a fucking moron (or a woman) if you can't see it.
>>
>>20453095
I dont think anon is blaming mom, anon is saying these kinds of families can and often breed individuals with stunted development. It does happen, some guys I know that were antisocial didn't have their dads around.
>>
>>20453108
>You implied that I can't get a date without knowing me

The very first thing you wrote was how Tinder and 1960s feminism "fucked everything" for you and then how triggered you were when you saw a guy dating a fat chick and started to wonder how far you would have to go. Civilization will collapse because of this.

Now you're telling me that you're just totally getting dates all the time it's not a problem at all.
>>
>>20453119
>>20453095
I grew up without having a father in my life or any real strong male role model, outside having a 'Big Brother' as part of that program when I was young. And when I got older he wasn't around to "explain women" to me. I definitely feel like I missed out, so this is where 'dating advice' could be useful in theory (in fact some of it was for me). The way a lot of it's presented is utter bullshit, though.
>>
>>20453119
>I dont think anon is blaming mom

I'm pretty sue he is, he explicitly blamed single moms for creating lonely men.

>It does happen

Sure, it also doesn't happen. I knoew loads of guys who had single moms and they have absolutely no problem with their social lives.

I think that being autistic and spending 16 hours a day on 4chan probably had a bigger impact on the people who are now still posting on 4chan and looking for things to blame for them being single virgins.
>>
>>20453123
>Now you're telling me that you're just totally getting dates all the time
Where did I say that?
>>
>>20452655
This is pretty much it. Women were desperate for a man before, because they could not financially support themselves. But now they can, so why would they pick an average looking guy, when they can pick a hot one?

They can see a greater amount of attractive looking men in their area, so that also allows the, to be pickier.

I honestly don't understand why so many anons on here can't understand that.
>>
>>20453129
Yeah but did you ask those guys what their childhood was like? Did they go out and have friends, were they abused at some point? Were they the kind of kids that were fairly confident? There are mothers out there that understand the kinds of things kids need to have normal lives single or not.
>>
>>20453127
The last thing you want to hear is dating advice from your father. Whatever well-meaning advice they do have to give is lost in translation because there's a 20-30 year gap in culture. What does someone who grew up in the 80s or 70s know about internet dating or what girls are into these days? He's gonna tell you to go to the local roller-disco and bowling alley or perhaps the local church.

They're also not in any position to explain women either because like most older generations they just married whoever their first or second gf/bf was.
>>
>>20453139
>You implied that I can't get a date without knowing me.

Can you or can't you get a date?
>>
>>20453147
Well they weren't raised on 4chan, which is why they turned out fine regardless of their living situation.
>>
Women have learned that they don't NEED a man to live a happy life anymore. They don't need to get married anymore. Thus, if a man wants to keep and maintain his woman, he needs to step up his game and be worthy of her time and attention longer than just through the dating phase.

Religion played a major roll in the traditional marriage mentality, but we as a collective society have also realized that religion is bullshit and not needed either.
>>
>>20453152
Yeah, I agree with you anon. I didn't figure out how to talk to girls until I was around 19. I'm 6'2, I've had women call me handsome to my face nearly my entire life, I dress well, but my inability to communicate with women and express my interest in them hindered my dating life for a long time.

And I had no shortage of male role-models in my life who were doing well with women, my cousin has literally slept with hundreds of girls and he gave me good advice, but I couldn't process it or understand how to apply it.

Just recently at my family Christmas, me and that same cousin were talking to a far younger family member about how to talk to girls, and I realized, there is nothing you can really say to a young boy that will teach them how to talk to girls. It's just something they have to figure out on their own.

I think male role-models may provide extra encouragement/confidence, but no ones advice really got me to where I am today
>>
>>20453147
Also to add to this, it's in a mother's nature to want to protect her children and some can be overprotective in the wrong ways. If they were abused, they may abuse their children. Fathers on the other hand want their kids and more specifically their sons to be strong, if the father can support his family he will no doubt pass down this knowledge to his sons.

The question is what happens when parents and more so parents from back in the days didn't follow these guidelines. What kind of people did their offspring turn into. Keep in mind Im not adding other family members in the mix because it's often the case parents dontblet them get toobinvolved with their children and if this were to happen it complicates things further.
>>
>>20453162
>men are lonely because they are on 4chan
Kek.
>>
>>20453174
>And I had no shortage of male role-models in my life who were doing well with women, my cousin has literally slept with hundreds of girls and he gave me good advice, but I couldn't process it or understand how to apply it.
>Just recently at my family Christmas, me and that same cousin were talking to a far younger family member about how to talk to girls, and I realized, there is nothing you can really say to a young boy that will teach them how to talk to girls. It's just something they have to figure out on their own.

exactly this. You can sort of give them a frame of reference and tips and tricks and advice but ultimately they've got their own way doing things and looking at the world and they need to figure it out on their own.

What modern post-2010s 4chan and the internet did was spread the idea around of "no, you don't have to try and figure it out on your own there's no point in even trying because look at this jpeg of a line graph that is dubiously sourced or taken out of context and used to jump to wild conclusions. it's society's fault that you can't get a date, and it's also your mom's fault, and your genetics, and the universe at large"

and of course it's not just a male thing, women also had their own thing going with tumblr and whatever else where they were also like "I'm fat as shit and hairy and ugly and it's men's fault that I can't get a date"

but luckily it's just a vocal minority.
>>
>>20453162
Guys I know werent either and yet they're a mess with zero self esteem. From what I can see most had dysfunctional families. A couple told me things I couldnt believe.
>>
There is no game you literally just have to be yourself but being yourself is the hardest thing possible to do. First you have to learn to love yourself which involves overcoming your deepest anxieties.
>>
File: h73gcyzuwb7z.jpg (91 KB, 1080x720)
91 KB
91 KB JPG
>>20453180
>Kek.

You're proving my point.
>>
>>20453195
I feel ashamed that I am a part of the same species as that
>>
>>20453174
Talking to women is a skill you learn and understand with experience but what you have to understand is the most crucial part is derived from a man's confidence. I'm saying there's a reason a lot if them have zero confidence and I gave my point of view.
>>
>>20453191
Yeah obviously that can happen - but even if a kid has loving well-meaning parents he's not going to come out okay if he spends all free his time watching gore videos and lurking Women Hate Thread and other "red pill" shit on 4chan during his formative years as a 10 year old kid or whatever who is now in his 20s.

No one who spent their formative years on this website is okay. You want proof? Look at the fucking state of the site today.
>>
>>20453201
Oh yeah Im not arguing against that, you shouldnt be shaping your views on the world with anything but experiences. You read stuff here if you can relate but you shouldnt shape yourself from these posts alone.
>>
>>20452565
Its not as much that there was no game before but the standards for men were much much lower.
>>
>>20453195
Jesus Christ, lurk moar newfag.
>>
>>20452751
>Rich, powerful, and/or attractive men have always gotten pussy and always will. More importantly, though, is that there is a capitalist market today


which one is it, faggot?
>>
>>20452983
any more?
>>
>>20453103
>Girls that are 2/10 will still get 100's of messages
when will this myth end
>>
>>20453241
Once incels are rounded up and sent to camps.
>>
I'm autistic, if I "be myself" I will repulse every single woman in a 6 mile radius. That's just how it is. I'm a fucking manchild, but I love being a manchild, and I only pretend to be adult in order to have money to fund my childish hobbies. The only thing that saves me in this world is the fact that everyone else seems to have fallen to my level.
>>
I think back then people were more desperate to marry at a young age so that's why it was easier to get a relationship. Now people prefer to experiment and "have fun". I guess standards are also higher now. And maybe anxiety and being socially retarded is more common now because of some chemichal in the air or phone waves or whatever (like lead paint made people stupid decades ago) but this is just my wild guess.
>>
>>20453241
But it's not a myth. I mean sure, 2/10 girls won't but 5/10 girls will. And for a guy, being 5/10 is bad, for a girl it's okay.
Anyone denying the fact that it's easier for a woman to receive validation, attention and sex, than it is for a man, is delusional.
>>
>>20453060

I'm perfectly fine with the current society desu. And there are no consequences to 'millions of lonely men' in a society which has legalized prostitution (sorry Americans). Not having a GF hardly has any impact on a man's ability to work, and casual sex is pretty much a guarantee that new generations will be created.

>>20453073

Definitely smaller scale. At least the only case of dual-mating with purpose (married young, got knocked up 4 times by other dude and let husband raise it) I know of was done by a IMO very plain sociopath. But some people are easier to manipulate than others.

>>20453241

Not a myth. That said "messages" doesn't mean "messages from chads who are looking for a wife".
>>
>>20453225
>newfag.

If you say "kek", you're the newfag.
>>
>>20452634
Your shitty victim attitude is why women don't like you. Who wants to date someone who, in their own head, has already perpetually lost?
>>
>>20452749
Yeah, no shit.
"Being sub-par in all things is a recipe for inceldom"...
It's also a recipe for a pathetic, miserable life. Go improve yourself, faggot.
>>
the sexual revolution happened and plain women are free to pursue the 1% men now
>>
>>20453328
in what fuckin world do you exist where being 2/10 or 5/10 for a girl is somehow okay when they live in the age of social media and instagram stars and make-up vloggers millionaires on youtube where all women are expected to be 10/10s.
>>
>>20453483
Why do you people live by the words and actions of some lonely faggots who have to ramble at webcams to get attention?

Imagine being so fucking empty inside hat validation from strangers is all that fills the void. Amazing. Who the fuck would ever want that.
>>
>>20453488
>Why do you people live by the words and actions of some lonely faggots who have to ramble at webcams to get attention?

What the fuck are you talking about lol This has nothing to do with what I was saying. Women are under even more pressure from social media and mainstream to look as good as possible.
>>
>>20453483
What the fuck are you talking about? No woman needs to be a 10/10 unless they actually want to be super huge and famous. If they want to have a normal life they can just be a 5/10 (not a fucking 2/10) and still get validation from tons of dudes. Unlike a 5/10 guy who will have a harder time.
>Imagine being so fucking empty inside hat validation from strangers is all that fills the void.
The problem is that you either get that and take it for granted, or you don't and want it more than you should.
>>
>>20453513
>Women are under even more pressure from social media and mainstream to look as good as possible.
No they aren't. All they need to do is wear some revealing shorts or tops and that's enough to get sex and attention even if they are 5/10s.
>>
>>20453515
>they can just be a 5/10
>>20453521
>that's enough to get sex and attention even if they are 5/10s.

proof? This is just incel ramblings.
>>
>>20453513
You're an idiot and I'm not giving you my time, faggot
If you don't understand the correlation between the internet and it's anonymous masses validating social media images then I don't have any idea what the fuck to say to you that'll register on your radar
>>
>>20453533
>If you don't understand the correlation between the internet and it's anonymous masses validating social media images

I do understand it, you're the one going WOW HOW PATHETIC WHO WOULD EVER SEEK ATTENTION ONLINE FROM ANONYMOUS PEOPLE with absolutely no sense of irony or self-awareness.
>>
>>20453526
I guess you are new or you would have seen for example that screencap of that guy pretending to be a fat ugly woman on social media and getting tons of messages.
>>
>>20453526
Women have no excuses. If you're complaining while living on easy-mode as a girl then you're really worthless and should just kill yourself.
>>
>>20453546
Says the basement dwelling incel who plays vidya all day long and gets fed tendies by his mom.
>>
File: 1480702845363.jpg (56 KB, 645x773)
56 KB
56 KB JPG
>>20453544
>for example that screencap of that guy

oh well shit if there's a screencap of that guy then that must be universally true and 100% scientifically undeniable proof.
>>
>>20453560
>says the incel incel incel incel incel
>>
File: 1505599345563.jpg (34 KB, 600x600)
34 KB
34 KB JPG
>>20453546
>Women have no excuses.
Evidently, yall faggot incels are hoarding all the excuses for yourselves
>>
>>20453571
See >>20453570
>>
>>20453565
Oh fuck off, you know nothing is "universally true".
>>
File: just a cool normal guy.jpg (86 KB, 1000x562)
86 KB
86 KB JPG
>>20453570
>>20453585
I'm sorry that the i-word triggers you so much what would you prefer to be called
>>
File: 156557075077.jpg (49 KB, 405x344)
49 KB
49 KB JPG
>>20453704
>guy looks pathetic
>I still can't completely disagree with what the sign says
>>
>>20453704
Something other than an overused buzzword. Or are buzzwords the only thing that exists in the female mind when it comes to insults?
>>
>>20453526
I would gladly date a 4/10 as long as she dressed well, ate well, had a pleasant personality, and good hygiene. That's all it takes. Three of which is 30 minutes of effort a day total. No need to exercise or be fit.
>>
>>20452648
I really hope that what you're saying is true. I really do.
>>
>>20453720
>all this assumption that I'm a woman

It's not a buzzword either it's a very real group and subculture.

>>20453709
It's one short sentence big enough to fit on a sandwich board sign so i wonder what it is that you're not completely agreeing with.
>>
>>20453723
>would

but you don't because?
>>
>>20453751
Feminism isn't completely bad in the sense that there are many countries where women indeed have a very shitty life. For example places where women are denied education. But in the west, yeah it's just a bunch of bored middle class white women who have "sexually failed" ironically just as much as those guys they call incels.
>>
Some people are just ugly and autistic, and have bad genes. There is no point in trying to pretend that they deserve to reproduce.
>>
Women are talented at taking pictures. In the virtual world even a 3 or a 4 /10 Can look like a 7 or 8 /10, guys just haven't realised this and fall for this trap all the time so even the shitty ones have the choice on dating apps. In real life not much has changed probably.
>>
>>20452565
My understanding is that there are many more layers of abstraction to separate individuals from each other alongside many more external influences which are engineered to tear down the ego for the purpose of material gain. You can see how pick-up artists strategize to combat the former, and how the MGTOW movement is a symptom of the latter.
>>
>>20453757
>but you don't because?
Because it's hard to find a 4/10 that does all that.
>>
>>20453767
I don't know, all the feminists I met (minus the female neckbeard ones) were as sexually/romatically active as regular women. Feminism isn't entirely based on the rejection of sex/relationships like incels or mgtow or these other meme 4chan ideas
>>
>>20453817
Same but I also think that many of the present day feminists aren't really passionate about feminism and they only joined because it's trendy and fashionable.
>>
>>20453921
Sure, it's a bullshit college identity thing. Same with like how so many anons are going to look back on their frogposting days with absolute shame and regret.
>>
>>20452590
Nothing of what you said makes sense or has a basis in anything in reality.
>>
>>20452583

Can confirm, I had no dad, managed to get laid when I was 17 but after that that was it.

Ahhh man I'm 21 and I like to think I've grown out of wanting a gf because I look at the circumstances and see that it's an unfair game and that I'm better than this but ehh, it's a bittersweet feeling. You can adapt to anything I guess. Girls are not that important, after all that some of us guys have gone through the girls should be chasing us, not the other way around, but it is what it is. Their loss.
>>
>>20452576
>tfw grandmothers are both disappointed in me for not even having one girlfriend
>>
>>20454016
>after all that some of us guys have gone through the girls should be chasing us, not the other way around
Girls literally face no struggles in life.
I tried talking to the shy and ugly/average girls also to get them to open up more and it's all the same. I'd even say that the pretty girls have more of a personality and are more fun to be around, and friendlier in general, and the other girls suffer from some serious victim complex which makes them useless at everything.
>>
>>20454044
>I tried talking to the shy and ugly/average girls also to get them to open up more and it's all the same

It could be that you're a boring piece of shit
>>
>>20454054
Nah, some of them still caught feelings, but I wasn't interested. :) They even did that thing where they bumped into me "by accident" to get physical contact, it was pathetic.
>>
File: MvcUWkq.jpg (136 KB, 926x926)
136 KB
136 KB JPG
>>20454072
>hey even did that thing where they bumped into me "by accident" to get physical contact, it was pathetic.
>>
Im still pretty confused im basically a 1/10 (male) on a appearance scale but somehow managed to date a 8/10 (female) but i wasn't looking for a relationship ?
>>
I'm fat, ugly, and autistic, and I haven't even seen a female in real life in 6 months.
I'm sure one of these things needs to change to get a gf.
>>
>>20452565
Men just took more risks, like starting companies, getting into boats that went across the ocean, coming up with theories defying everything that everyone else believes, flying to the moon, running at machine gun bunkers, talking to chicks, etc. Meanwhile, the modern man is scared of dying from sepsis if he gets a scratch. No one wants to leave their comfort zone anymore. Comfort, in the form of soft tendies, comfy beds, video games, escapism with fantasy books and movies, etc. has substituted man's natural desire to take pleasure from risky endeavours.

Just look at the number of "how to know if she's interested" threads on this site and many others, where instead of asking girls out, guys are obsessively looking for signs that she is interested with 100% certainty, as if something will happen if they get rejected. Just think of that moron that makes a thread every couple of days complaining how he can't find a woman, yet he never even approached one because he "knows" he'll be rejected.
>>
>>20454545
>Just look at the number of "how to know if she's interested" threads on this site and many others, where instead of asking girls out, guys are obsessively looking for signs that she is interested with 100% certainty, as if something will happen if they get rejected. Just think of that moron that makes a thread every couple of days complaining how he can't find a woman, yet he never even approached one because he "knows" he'll be rejected.

Unironically my favorite recurring thread on this board.

It's like
>WHY CAN'T I GET A JOB?! I NEED A JOB!
>well how many CVs or job application did you send in recently?
>I DIDN'T SEND ANY BECAUSE THE PEOPLE THERE DIDN'T LOOK LIKE THEY WANTED TO HIRE ME I THINK I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M DOING WRONG
>>
Men used to be hot back in the day. now its fucking recessed chins, fat stomachs, tshirts instead of suits, weird estrogen laced boobies... gross
>>
>>20454554
>how to know if she is interested
The best part of this is all the typical 'signs' are wrong so often. It should be noted that it's context sensitive and depends on the girl, but I'm at least relaxed enough to have normal conversations with very attractive girls. They often show these "indicators of interest" like smiling a lot, looking in my eyes, pointing their feet at me, playing with hair etc...I think it's just something a lot of women do. Not to manipulate men or confuse them, or even flirt for fun. I think they just do it. On the contrary, actual interested women that I've encountered often acted really shy and reserved, but I just got a 'feeling' around them that they fancied me. Or sometimes, I didn't even see them at all and found out a while later they were checking me out for days or weeks.

Really, the only tangible indicators of interest are when she agrees to go out with you, and then eventually sleeps with you.So you might as well just go for it. A women is unlikely to show interest in a guy she barely knows, even if she thinks he's kind of cute.
>>
And herein lies the source of humanities eventual collapse.
>>
>>20453473
>in their own head
Wow. Wish I had known it was all in my head when she left me for someone's DMs. Could've saved me the heartache. Thanks for the heads up.
>>
>>20452565
Nothing changed, women have and will always be attracted by the same type of men. We have a generation of men who have been castrated by an overbearing culture that tries to shun masculinity at any turn and coddles kids until they're basically grown children. Basically what you have left is a generation of men who were raised like women, who haven't been taught any practical skills that emphasize self reliance, confidence, or mental strength. All those are qualities women find attractive in men, the fact that Hollywood and the media idolizes and portrays this pusified "masculinity" where women want guys who cry and are sensitive who write them poetry, just makes the problem worse and it gives boys an unrealistic view of dating and relationships. Men don't learn these values through growing up anymore, hence they have to learn it from some guys on the internet who managed to shake the social conditioning any actually behave like men should.
>>
>>20452565
They had game obviously. Also shit was different back in the day, easier, less social pressure. Or maybe it's just me but it feels every single thing i do goes wrong so I'm not even touch dating with a ten foot pole.
>>
>>20455168
I've slowly come to find those things for myself, at the age of 26, after spending most of my early 20's in a rut with women. I've been financially independent since 20, but confidence and better social skills didn't start until a few years ago and only in the past couple did I start being able to ask girls out on dates without completely spiling spaghetti. I'm still a virgin, but I think "my time" is soon, I've got everything I need like a car, steady income, and a clean apartment, as well as not being ugly or unforgivably shy. Fingers crossed, I guess.
>>
>>20455249
If I could do it, you can do it anon, I wish you luck
>>
File: same.png (606 KB, 500x730)
606 KB
606 KB PNG
Honestly, I just have one non-negotiable thing.

Giant tits.

Like I mean at least some G-cups. Everything else is negotiable, everything but the tits. You can of course imagine how [un]successful I've been with women.
>>
>>20455568
>>
File: gib.jpg (55 KB, 960x640)
55 KB
55 KB JPG
>>20455805
>>
>>20454545
>>20454554
Here come the tough grandpas who haven't noticed that women have gone to shit also.
>>
>Did they need to read books and take classes and keep "practicing their game"

They didn’t need to read books or attend classes that told them how to attract women and neither should YOU

>or did they just, ya know, meet a woman out somewhere that they got along with, got a yes when they asked her out, and the rest is history?

That’s what I did and all other guys I know did as well



Delete Post: [File Only] Style:
[Disable Mobile View / Use Desktop Site]

[Enable Mobile View / Use Mobile Site]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.